Teamwork

[PLODDITHANLEY]

Something I want to discuss:

In my opinion most of the new maps need a certain amount of teamwork to be able to have a fun round, I myself find if that squads are working independently I often get frustrated, I virtually always play as infantry.

• 1. As bluefor on most insurgent maps - if you're not coordinating it will be boring/annoying for both sides, IMHO if you're not working together you are lucky to get one cache.
• 2. On the big maps (Kashan, Yamalia) if you don't have some good logistic/trans guys and armour support you're screwed.

IMHO to generalize it seems to have become rarer to find just a little teamwork over the last few months, I went on TG recently and was a little shocked to find a Merkeva on mumble shadowing our infantry squads and communicating with us via mumble, that is the first time in a while I have seen that.

So many of the threads I see here are only an issue because teamwork is not optimised in the majority of battles.

I notice that quite alot of the community are very selective about where and when they play preferring to play less but with more teamwork.

I love most of the maps with teamwork and mumble but when it is just each squad working independently I'd rather go commander or watch a film.

I have been going commander recently trying to enjoy the teamwork side of PR, a few times i have been very nicely surprised by the amount of co operation I have received, although it is more often to find only half the SL's that talk, and only one that ever uses the great SL marker features.

If you don't see what I mean about PR IMHO being 20 times better with teamwork either through a third party VOIP or via a commander watch some of the excellent films here:

YouTube - muitocomplicado's Channel

What I ask is why do so many players not use the awesome teamwork side of PR? I know in Europe we can have a little more problems with language but with the huge commo rose it isn't a big issue any more.

• 1. Not enough time to devote 2-3 hours?
• 2. No mumble?
• 3. Shy about talking - accent or young voice? (I couldn't care less its how you play that matters - plus some accents make is feel like IFOR/ISAF forces!)
• 4. Not in the mood for the patience needed (waiting for squads or team to regroup like IRL)?
• 5. Haven't experienced a great teamwork game and don't know what your missing?
• 6. Long term gamer who has got the habit of individual gaming?
• 7. Can't talk - Parents, family or flatmates will get annoyed?

Nice to hear your opinions guys - as I don't understand!

I myself am often guilty of number 4 - lack of patience, if the whole squad is wiped out there is such a big urge to rush in again, when ofc we should regroup, rethink, get some support - in fact anything but rinse and repeat.

[Rudd]

# 6. Long term gamer who has got the habit of individual gaming?

I'd agree its conditioning, for years and years we've played games that - although fantastic with teamwork - focus on YOU, the hero, the ninja throwing star special forces superman who is awesome. We all used to just play single player, then we got to multiplayer but for the widest possible audience the makers usually go...

"well yeah...teamwork is fun, but you don't have to if you don't want" <- as this means more sales (Not an evil thing, they gotta make money after all)

so people just got used to a insular method of playing

[shribey22]

Couldn't agree more. I think the main problem is that new players haven't experienced that side of gaming. We need to find a way to convey the amazing rounds produced by using teamwork to new players. This is why I have been debating whether or not to join a clan. I would love to be part of one that focuses on teamwork (which im sure almost every one does) but my main problem is that working on an engineering degree doesn't leave you enough time to play PR for hours at a time . So i'm stuck playing on pub servers and have to deal with a lot of BS rounds. One of the biggest problems that I see right now is that we still have a shortage of capable SLs. The other night I played on the Hardcore Insurgency server and was leading the only infantry squad for the Brits... needless to say we only got like two caches...

[Tim270]

Goes by server to server. Any server that utilizes mumble will instantly have more teamwork based on SL communication, which is why its so great. Ive said before you see the ultimate amount of teamwork in 32 man clan battles where you have to cooperate constantly if you want any chance of winning.

[PLODDITHANLEY]

Thanks guys for your opinions.

Rudd interesting as I am new to the gaming world, VBF being my first game in a loonggg time, but after VBF I wonder if it's hard for players to readjust.

Shribey, I know exactly what you mean, in a channel in the Mumble PR 0.5 you will find me (Ploddit) and a few other players like drakomt, Opium and Mr Hyde feel free to see where we/they are and join in.

Tim, yes undoubtedly there are many new names in PR since 0.9 which is great, but what worries me is that if they haven't tried PRT, events or had a good night on TG they may not have a clue of the joys of a good teamwork round, when I started PR I was lucky enough to stumble on the now dead RT which, last summer, had very good teamwork.


What I guess concerns me is that for teamwork events on public servers to work they need a lot of advertising and networking to work.
There is often events running, atm we have the NATO server matches which are good (thx Wicca - never thought I'd say that!), and of course the mini tournament.

People say to me it'll get better in the summer, with more players and perhaps the 0.9 new guys will by that time want a bit more.

The great feeling I get when CAS is successful after I have called it - I think for me that's the PR high point seeing some horrible tank or whatever destroyed to let us advance and, of course, so realistic. Tbh even calling for trans and it turning up is also quite enjoyable.

Personally watching some of DB's films is what brought me round to talk about this. I also believe that 0.9 rewards good teamwork even more than previous versions, just the size of the maps IMHO demands a certain amount of teamwork to have a good round.

The upside is that I go CO a bit, and oddly enough really enjoy trying to get a load of guys on a pub server to work together, also I don't find it boring atall when just three or four squads start using the CO it can get quite stressful - certainly not the impression I'd got from many posts.

[Skull]

Ive said before you see the ultimate amount of teamwork in 32 man clan battles where you have to cooperate constantly if you want any chance of winning.

dream on

i totally agree to your opinion, the main problem is that a lot of players are just there for being a hero again and kill 100 guys bla bla. though ive played a lot of rounds on certain servers where the team keeps working together and everyone has lotta fun.

i trief working out ideas how you can improve teamwork, there arent much though.
- clans are good in some way, a 32 man clanwar wont be ever possible though. and some clanmembers think because they got a cool looking tag, they are the guys with the biggest balls on earth.
- one idea would be a vouching system, where only "good" players get a password to one or more "pro servers". the different times when ppl are playing might be a problem though and there are more.
- another idea - quite similar, the most realistic though - would be a password protected server and the password is announced here on the forum, since most ppl who care about the game are on the forum.

just some ideas

[Cassius]

In case you did not notice, much like futballl PR greatly revolves around teamwork. We had a game on jabal where there were 4 squadleaders in the MEC channel and 9 SL in the USMC channel, the American team absolutely steamrolled MEC, calling out targets to each other quickly bringing supplies and reinforcments in from dead flags. I think we capped them out in under 45 min.

[shribey22]

Thanks ploddit ill be sure to look for you next time im on (my ingame name/mumble name is silentscope22)

@ Cassius: yes our point here is that PR is best served with a healthy dose of teamwork. However, we tend to fail when it comes to passing this phenomenon to new players. This thread needs to move in the direction of brainstorming ideas to fix this problem. Ploddit has already mentioned the community events... maybe we need better news feeds to advertise them in game?

[Rudd]

one thing that did strike me when I played the FH2 is that those annoying BF2 help tips came up, I wonder if we can make use of that, but only have them come up in COOP or something...maybe they can help newer players

[PLODDITHANLEY]

There are many guys out there that welcome new guys to their squad and try to help them, it isn't easy though in the thick of a battle. The ideal is that new player can get on Mumble so they can talk without 'bugging' the rest of the squad.
Maybe once Tournament 9 is up and running more guys will come to appreciate the hidden depths (for many) of PR, I loled at Zebra's post a little in the same vain as this one.

[Tim270]

- clans are good in some way, a 32 man clanwar wont be ever possible though

GiS, Heroes, MIF, GCA, RIP, Polish community, Russian Alliance, and thats just off the top of my head (Lots of other smaller clans that combine into 32 man teams) these clans regularly play each other in 32v32 battles, so its definitely not a dream

Back on topic, I do think ANY SL inter-communication is key to a teams ability to win, if every SL in a public server calls out any target/markers them on the map regularly it makes so much easier for the team to work around that.

I also like to go CO on servers when im not feeling like doing anything else, this most of the time ends in me simply giving advice to squads and passing essential information between squads rather than trying to force them do what I want. It just gets too frustrating trying to constantly tell squads that are losing in KDR to hold off attacking until they even it out or simply sit back for a mins and get some kills.

Teamwork on a basic level is forced by the game, but 'taking it to the next level' is all about coms. Even if it is just chat, calling targets, communication with the team, trying to co-ordinate attacks really raises the game to the next level, this is mumble (when its not spammy) improves the quality of teamwork simply as it makes it so much easier to communicate.

[-.-Maverick-.-]

In my perfect/crazy world. When you request a server license you MUST have a PR mumble channel, your server must be passworded and the password must be displayed in your mumble channel. That way if a person wants to join a specific server they need to get in their mumble channel first, check the password and then join in.

In theory this should insure mumble usage on all servers but it also may cause the loss of some audience. This isn't a big deal for me because I would rather have 4 great server with people I know and that use teamwork, then 120 servers with 90% lonewolfes.

[PLODDITHANLEY]

Nice idea Maverick I agree, but there are many many guys out there who don't like/want/have mumble. TBH it seems very unreliable atm, last night in 30 mins it dropped out three times....
It would improve comms and teamwork but seeing how an awful lot of Mumble only servers don't last (RT, PMC) clearly there is a problem somewhere, hence OP!
Tim I like to go CO and like you I am more a communication conduit than anything else, except on maps with CAS, they appreciate having permanent targets.

[-.-Maverick-.-]

Yes mumble servers don't last long because they are so rare. But if all servers needed to have a fully operational mumble, like I mentioned above, then they couldn't die.

Oh and everyone has mumble downloaded with 0.9. You get it with the install, it is just the people are too lazy to install it, ffs it takes fives clicks.

[Cassius]

Problem is if people cant be bothered to do teamwork, forcing them into a mumble channel wont solve the issue either. The best thing you can do is to gather as many teamplayers as you can and have them play on the same team, so they can steamroll the army of lonewolfes. Some players will adapt and do what it takes to win, get in mumble and call in CAS, use the radio, others will realize they really prefer modern warfare with all the C00L weapon unlocks.

[dtacs]

In theory this should insure mumble usage on all servers but it also may cause the loss of some audience. This isn't a big deal for me because I would rather have 4 great server with people I know and that use teamwork, then 120 servers with 90% lonewolfes.

Many people can't use mumble IIRC due to problems. Some of the best players I know don't use mumble but you can still communicate with them if they read teamchat.

Force use of mumble would be like global communism, awesome in theory but not in practice.

[zebra.actual]

The problem is people have to play PR with a teamwork mindset. If you have the mindset then you will do fine. Not being aware of your surroundings (such as not dropping repairs to a tracked APC whp called for them on the map) , not knowing how to play and not wanting to help others are all different issues to tackle. I don't know where the majority of players fall though.

you can still communicate with them if they read teamchat.

I have had so many things pointed out to me from my squad about someone typing something out that was directed at me. Chat is not a reliable way of communicating. I for one, tend to block out most text as it's got nothing to do with me or the game at hand.

[badmojo420]

I think a large problem is the tendency to ignore all blue players. Green people just get more respect and more assistance. A common scene is a couple squads fighting closely (proximity, not working together) and when one squad gets wiped out, the other squad and their medic ignore all calls for help. Why? Because we're not on VOIP yelling "MEDIC!!!!!" and the same goes for ammo, assistance, etc. I can't count the number of times i've spammed the "Need Ammo" command in front of another player only to get ignored, or had medics walk right over my body and ignore my calls. Or the worst, say your squad gets wiped out and your the lone survivor, while trying to fall back you come upon another "blue" player, you spam the contact call and the guy takes no notice and walks straight into the enemy ambush.

It's like racism. Blue players are people too!

[shribey22]

The blue guy is why we try to push mumble towards new players so much. Mumble gives the player that extra step in communication that allows multi-squad medic and ammo support. *sigh* But players are hardcoded and God forbid you take two seconds to double click into the right mumble server...

[PLODDITHANLEY]

I agree with zebra regarding teamchat, I've got out of the habit of watching it due to playing on mumble servers, plus teamchat can often have lots of chit chat irrelevant to the squad most of the time. In the heat of the action it's too slow for me.