Medic kit change for 0.91. Disagree.

[Human_001]

Hello. It is feedback about change in Medic kit availability.

Now medic kit is aviailable to squad of 2, I see much more revive in use.

There was decrease in medic kit number on field when it was only obtainable with 4 player in squad. It was way more realistic that enemy player actually died in previous version.

With this comes more medic kit in field, picked up medic kit from other dead player, only 2man and 3 man squad have medic with them.

Until just previous version, there was no reviving unless there is large squad moving togather. Now, revive everywhere.

I can literally see I am getting worser KDR on my scoreboard. Interestingly, it is almost same KDR that I always got back in when medic kit was available to 2 man squad.

It is almost like math equation. The number of medic kit available on map directly relates to KDR of opposite team. KDR is dependant to number of medic kit available to opposite team and result is always the same, like equation.

I am against revive system and have been suggested before as many times as stars in the sky.

But couldn't we at least added something like ticket loss for wounded stage even though player was revived afterward?

This is my feedback for medic kit change in 0.91. I think this change made step backward for problem that was already solved.

[Arnoldio]

I think the only solution to this is, when revived, you dont have that 2 minute "danger of death" zone, but insted you have like 5 hours of that. Upon being wounded -> you die instead. That means that max players from one squad is 12, before all are reborn.

[Rudd]

But couldn't we at least added something like ticket loss for wounded stage even though player was revived afterward?

thats an interesting idea, in fact it might be interesting for death to equal 2 tickets, so you'd lose one ticket when you are critically wounded, then another when you actually die.

This means there is a penalty for not being careful, and another penalty if your team doesn't save you.

Such a system would also push balance a bit towards Insurgents again, which is probably a good thing, and maybe shorten rounds a little bit.

Good points Human.

[BroCop]

I'd rather see Chizz's version then to loose 2 tickets for dieing (as unless its a organised match the rounds wont last long with all the lonewolfs/smacktards running around the map wasting tickets)

[Jigsaw]

I can see where you're coming from and in a sense I do agree, however I believe that it was a necessary alteration to improve the enjoyability of gameplay for the average player. In 0909 it was very difficult to stay alive with the harsh RP rules and if you were a 3 man squad and one of you went down you were then screwed.

Whilst 0917 has made it a more forgiving environment I feel that this is important for the players to be able to enjoy the game a little more.

Personally i'd like to see a happy medium from the points in this thread so far:

• Medic limited to 3 man squads
• Increase timer for instant-death after revive to 5 minutes to equal the time you can be wounded before having to respawn

[Potilas]

Since we cannot get rid of epipen which is very sad for those who seek realism based gameplay. Step to right direction would be lower the number of epipens what medic can carry to 1-3. Medic does not have to carry a single patche coz he have medibag what is proper way to heal ppl.

My wrath for imba medic class never rests.

[Moonlight]

Since we cannot get rid of epipen which is very sad for those who seek realism based gameplay. Step to right direction would be lower the number of epipens what medic can carry to 1-3. Medic does not have to carry a single patche coz he have medibag what is proper way to heal ppl.

My wrath for imba medic class never rests.

Can't agree since medics are often forced to use 3-4 epipens per revive since the wounded is entangled into ground so much. I happened once to need 10 epipens(fortunately ammo bag was available) + a LOT of resuscitate to make one person up.
I'd rather have:

• Medic limited to 3 man squads
• Increase timer for instant-death after revive to 5 minutes to equal the time you can be wounded before having to respawn

or just ticket punishment for getting wounded.

[TheAmazingYant]

I agree with Moonlight that lowering the number of epipens would not work simply because you tend to waste so many on guys who are entangled in the ground. I typically get three or four revives for my allotted ten epi's. On a good squad that sees a lot of combat, I'm normally the one asking for ammo the most often.

What seems to be the problem is that reviving a player isn't a particularly big deal. If a man goes down, your medic runs over, revives him, rubs a little canvas sack against his boo-boos for about 30 seconds, and then everyone moves on. Taking casualties should be more of a crisis situation, which requires the response of the entire squad.

I would be in favor of tweaks to lessen the effectiveness of medics, such as decreasing the healing speed with the med kit, or increasing the time period following being revived in which you will instantly go from "wounded" to "dead". Anything that increases the time from a player being "wounded" to being "100% Effectiveness".

To that end, perhaps putting a movement penalty on a player for a duration after being revived would help. For a set period of time - 30 to a minute, say - the revived player moves at a reduced speed and maybe can't draw his weapon. It'd be a little artificial and annoying, but it would keep the revived player from returning to the fight as rapidly as they do now.

What about increasing the time needed to ready an epipen? As it is, a player can draw a pen and hit a guy with it in one or two seconds. Increasing the time it takes (such as with the HAT kits) would make it more difficult for a medic to rush in, revive a guy, and get back out. I imagine a 5-10 second period would work well.

I can literally see I am getting worser KDR on my scoreboard. Interestingly, it is almost same KDR that I always got back in when medic kit was available to 2 man squad.

It is almost like math equation. The number of medic kit available on map directly relates to KDR of opposite team. KDR is dependant to number of medic kit available to opposite team and result is always the same, like equation.

Not to play Devil's Avocado, but if there are indeed medics running around all over the place healing every soldier with a scraped knee, then wouldn't your Kill-to-Death ratio (which is an entirely useless statistic, like a pitcher's Win/Loss ratio) remain the same? Or are you running off on your own with no medic to back you up?

[RHYS4190]

What seems to be the problem is that reviving a player isn't a particularly big deal. If a man goes down, your medic runs over, revives him, rubs a little canvas sack against his boo-boos for about 30 seconds, and then everyone moves on. Taking casualties should be more of a crisis situation, which requires the response of the entire squad.



up?

Very bad idea fiddling with the medic kit's, at this stage the dev's have balanced the medic's to work perfectly with this version. got to under stand in PR we take a hell of a lot more casualties then in RL, so by you saying that taking casualties should be a crisis situation to the squad and every one needs to just halt and stop the advance would simply mean you never be able to make any head way, one guy get shot, ok stop we got to heal him 3 min latter you finnish finally let keep the attack going, F%%k some else got shot ok guys stop f*ck it happened again, f*ck this just respawn

and the fact you can't spawn on rally points means you just get a whole lot of people spawning back at base and then having to walk, then they get pissed off

Basically what im saying is the medic really is now what holding the game to gather and the iniative, if some one get shot they can be revived easily stopping them from having to respawn back at base, this keeps the team together and helps with team work because people are not getting separated.

If you make reviving healing harder or reduce the number of medics people won't be able to get healed or revived and will have to resort to respawning back at base, and i think that will just ruin the game.

[Tartantyco]

I'd rather see Chizz's version then to loose 2 tickets for dieing (as unless its a organised match the rounds wont last long with all the lonewolfs/smacktards running around the map wasting tickets)

Solution: Increase tickets...

I fear for humanity when I actually have to point stuff like this out.

[Rudd]

Solution: Increase tickets...

I fear for humanity when I actually have to point stuff like this out.

more tickets makes dying seem less important imo, less tickets means shorter rounds and more care with your life imo.

[Tartantyco]

more tickets makes dying seem less important imo, less tickets means shorter rounds and more care with your life imo.

Technically it's just more fractions, not more tickets. However, I was referring to CroCop's assertion that a change like the one discussed would shorten rounds, something it would not do if the amount of tickets were increased comparably, which is a pretty obvious solution. Whether rounds should be longer, the same, or shorter is not relevant to that argument.

[Kain888]

Increase timer for instant-death after revive to 5 minutes to equal the time you can be wounded before having to respawn

All good points, but not sure about this one. Getting dead dead too often may be bad for squad cohesion and teamwork. Reviving is excellent tool for making proper tactics as squad and to make squad important. It's opposite to Rally Point which is static spawn point not bringing any dynamic and valuable thing to the gameplay.

IMO wounding a soldier is as well process of slowing enemy engagement and making them more exposed (though I would like more time for first aid kit to fully recover health), not always to get kill in your scoreboard. They have to secure position, revive, etc. They are often exposed doing this and easy to flank. I don't see a lot of instant revive in gameplay, it's too risky unless you want to lost two soldiers from your suqad. This is IMO good.

Maybe three minutes wouldn't be bad, but I'm not sure about this. It's thin line between being balanced and not balanced.

But as I stated I'm for longer time to heal someone to 100% and for 3 people in squad to get medic.

I think that reviving is good way to promote teamwork. Hitting too often dead dead status makes people less attached to squad movement.

Quoting Fuzzhead:

On-site battlefield revives and "healing" are in Project Reality as they are an incredibly powerful tool to help bring squads together, reinforce squad cohesion and reward squads that use superior teamwork and tactics. There is nothing realistic about them, and the dev team has acknowledged this since the start of the project. If Project Reality was about TOTAL realism (which it definitely is not and has no plans to), then getting shot in the foot would mean exactly the same as getting shot in the head - you are KILLED.[...]

From:
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... post955143

[Fungwu]

"On-site battlefield revives and "healing" are in Project Reality as they are an incredibly powerful tool to help bring squads together, reinforce squad cohesion and reward squads that use superior teamwork and tactics."

"Reviving is excellent tool for making proper tactics as squad "

Its funny, I think reviving certainly rewards playing together as a squad, but I think it punishes people who use good tactics and rewards stupidity.

For instance, if your squad member sticks his head out of a window and I shoot him in the head and then run away, haven't I used superior tactics? I have killed one enemy, preserved my own life, and the enemy doesn't even know where I am, and yet I am punished because that guy is revived with no real penalty and now I have 1 less bullet.

However if I shoot him in the head, then rush the building by myself while he is being revived, I have at least a small chance of being rewarded with a kill, even though I am trying to be Rambo and rushing in.

I think the best thing I have read in this post is to make a 1 ticket penalty for being wounded, and a 2 ticket penalty for death, and give the attacking player 1 kill regardless. It seems the best approach of making getting shot being bad, and not making medics pointless.

Honestly I have survived many rounds without dying, all it takes is patience and tactics. People die so much because they are not cautious and they don't learn from their mistakes, I think being shot and being revived without and penalty only encourages them to not learn.

[iwillkillyouhun]

you have a good point right there Human

i like the idea of being punished if you are wounded

[badmojo420]

Kill-to-Death ratio (which is an entirely useless statistic

I disagree. In a game where the outcome is based on a ticket system,(which is based on deaths) and with very few maps coming down to ticket bleed, maintaining a positive kill-death ratio seem to be a very important part of winning this game.

Does a good KDR represent a good player? No. But, when you are playing the game correctly, your kill death ratio will show you what kind of impact you are having on the other team.

kill :d eath <--- Not a useless statistic

-----------

On-topic: I would also like to see a return of the 4 man requirement for medic. Or the removal of the epipen.

[Qaiex]

3 man squads for medic, 1 ticket for wounded, 2 for dying, and increase the number of tickets per game to reflect the changes.
Not doubling the tickets, because then we're back to square one, but maybe half more.

[Kain888]

3 man squads for medic, 1 ticket for wounded, 2 for dying, and increase the number of tickets per game to reflect the changes.

This are imo the best changes that can be done. I would add to that list the time of healing with medic kit.

[Human_001]

Very bad idea fiddling with the medic kit's, at this stage the dev's have balanced the medic's to work perfectly with this version. got to under stand in PR we take a hell of a lot more casualties then in RL, so by you saying that taking casualties should be a crisis situation to the squad and every one needs to just halt and stop the advance would simply mean you never be able to make any head way, one guy get shot, ok stop we got to heal him 3 min latter you finnish finally let keep the attack going, F%%k some else got shot ok guys stop f*ck it happened again, f*ck this just respawn

and the fact you can't spawn on rally points means you just get a whole lot of people spawning back at base and then having to walk, then they get pissed off

Basically what im saying is the medic really is now what holding the game to gather and the iniative, if some one get shot they can be revived easily stopping them from having to respawn back at base, this keeps the team together and helps with team work because people are not getting separated.

If you make reviving healing harder or reduce the number of medics people won't be able to get healed or revived and will have to resort to respawning back at base, and i think that will just ruin the game.

"On-site battlefield revives and "healing" are in Project Reality as they are an incredibly powerful tool to help bring squads together, reinforce squad cohesion and reward squads that use superior teamwork and tactics."

"Reviving is excellent tool for making proper tactics as squad "

Its funny, I think reviving certainly rewards playing together as a squad, but I think it punishes people who use good tactics and rewards stupidity.

Exactly.

I know this is their (mod developers) game and it will be rude to force my opinion on them. But I really don't understand. Is this game about reality or "teamplay"? It says on website the game is about teamplay, but when I first met this game back in 0.6 it wasn't about teamplay, they where pursuing reality.

From what I can see, this mod is much like real life politic. I think we have Left, Right, and Independent here, when it comes to Reality or Teamplay.

I'd be more than happy to get stuck behind some concrete wall for 15 minute because I can't find the player who ambushed me Or, have to spawn back in main everytime I die to represent respawn as new soldier for reenforcement.

I do however, like having medic bag, that is, if you are only bleeding out and can walk to medic.

Random thought:

Quoting Fuzzhead:



From:
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... post955143

As quoted above by Kain888 on Fuzzhead about getting shot in the foot is same as getting shot in the head. I think, this is not so refined comparison.

Getting shot in foot won't kill a person I am guessing. Although could cause unconsciousness from pain and totally disabling person to walk, maybe permanently.

What I feel from that quote is, reffering to getting shot in the foot as not fatal compared to head. Maybe comparison should had been something like 'arm' which, many times a person get shot in this part of body and still can run to safety, and could get medical attention and can completely or with small amount of disability, recover from such injury. I have seen and heard such example in TV and books from WWII stories to person that got shot in shootout.
This is also why I think medic bag is still could be realistic.

[Excavus]

Here's an idea, leave the medic kit as it is right now. It's balanced perfectly.