An attack helicopter suggestion for improving reality or so...

[PatrickLA_CA]

I was watching these 2 videos that i found in the " Off-topic discussion " section of the forums

YouTube - AH-64 in action kabul afganistan part.1
YouTube - Ah-64 in action kabul afganistan part.2

and other videos in which the attack helis mostly fly low and hover while engaging targets and if you do that in PR even for 2 seconds you are dead from MG or AA or HAT, so what I want to ask and suggest is " Is there anyway you could make the helis to survive while flying low and hovering to shoot " because IRL they dont go very high and act like an AC-130 gunship XD!

[spawncaptain]

Solution: Make maps larger than 4 km in diameter, increase view distance.

Not gonna happen.

[Hunt3r]

The problem is that in reality, Apaches have to adopt ambush positions. Attack helicopters basically hover out of range and employ missiles, eventually going in with rockets and guns once the armor threat is gone.

Besides, in PR, aircraft run out of flares too easily.

[Rudd]

Besides, in PR, aircraft run out of flares too easily.

I would agree with that to an extent, as pilots should be encouraged to flare while they attack imo rather than wait for the warning tone which means their reaction time to missles is vastly decreased, especially if they are on a higher ping server.

Maybe the combined arms system would be better I'm not sure, especially the different directions of the flare launchers, no idea if they are better or worse gameplay wise.

Patrick, look at the video, they are circling not hovering.

I can't quite remember how the CA hellfires work, as they kinda got messed up in the last version, but iirc they were easier to fire on the move, so maybe thats an idea.

I've seen some great pilots, go high, fly in fast, blow **** up, then get out. Flying high and slow is a stable firing position and safe from AA as you are on the edge of their view distance, however vehicles like BMPs will just mince you.

Remember the apaches ingame are dealing with armour rather than taliban, theres more that can kill them.

I still say the way to go is to increase lock on times for AA by using a delay click. Give pilots more chances to escape.

[Sidewinder Zulu]

One of the big problems in PR is that everyone and their grandma can destroy a helicopter.

Helicopters in PR are difficult to fly, let alone engage in combat with.

If you have Stingers, Mounted AA, Firebase TOWs, Firebase .50s, Light AT, Heavy AT, Tanks, APCs, FAVs, Humvees and jeeps, other helicopters, jets, and insurgents with rocks and AKs able to destroy you, then you will die alot, no matter what.


It's one of the very few things that genuinely annoys me in PR.
Helicopters take hours and hours of training to learn how to fly correctly, hours more to learn how to fight with correctly, and many trial-and-error experiences to develop good tactics, and yet some random dude in a BMP can kill you by spraying 70 HEI-T rounds in the general direction of your Apache. It has seriously lowered my incentive to fly, which I don't do much anymore.

There have been many suggestions on this subject, and I don't think any of them will ever materialize, unfortunately.

[Hunt3r]

Few things should be done to PR to actually make attack helicopters useful, because right now they are just too weak and expensive for the potential firepower, which can never really be used.

Countermeasures

• Flares that block heat targets from appearing
• 120 of them
• Flares should block the explosion if the seeker head detonates near the aircraft, and the flare is between it.

Weaponry

• Hellfires should have two modes
• Area mode: Once you fire, the missile will go towards where you last clicked.
• Point mode: Hellfires will lock onto any vehicle, or emplacement. TOW, HMG, AA, it doesn't matter. It must be manned, however. If this is considered too radical, this could be just the previous LT mode.

Sensors

• Actual FLIR should be implemented for the gunner. Mosquill?
• All helicopters that give the pilot a FLIR camera should get them, ie the Apache.
• Helicopters should get a warning that they are about to be locked, and they should be told when they have been locked.

AA should also be very effective and be able to take out choppers unless flares intercede.

[BloodBane611]

The 2 most major problems with realistic attack helos (and with PR:BF2 in general) are map size and view distance. In 0.9 the DEVs pushed the limit pretty good on view distance, to the point where several maps have had it reduced. The fact is that there are engine (and computer) limitations, BF2 will never have ArmA II view distances.

[goguapsy]

Solution: Make maps larger than 4 km in diameter, increase view distance.

Agreed.

Not gonna happen.

Disagreed.

Some people are making 16km2 maps...

Now about the view distance limitations (AIX has upped the max view distance IIRC for one of their maps, so did PR) I think it wouldn't be a problem with low-quality objects like completely static trees and undestructable houses?

I wouldn't like to play a map like this much but, hey, Kashan is still popular.

[Hunt3r]

The 2 most major problems with realistic attack helos (and with PR:BF2 in general) are map size and view distance. In 0.9 the DEVs pushed the limit pretty good on view distance, to the point where several maps have had it reduced. The fact is that there are engine (and computer) limitations, BF2 will never have ArmA II view distances.

Uh, I'm pretty sure that Combined Arms devs beg to differ..

BTW, 100 km^2 maps can be made.

[Bazul14]

16km^2 = 4km x 4km....

just putting that out there.

Exiled.

Owned

[Bazul14]

Really, 100km2? then could i see some proof?

[Rudd]

Uh, I'm pretty sure that Combined Arms devs beg to differ..

BTW, 100 km^2 maps can be made.

I think you'll find that the maps featured in CA are somewhat less demanding than the maps in PR.

also, CA has yet to feature the new kit geos etc which are more performance intensive.

[BloodBane611]

Uh, I'm pretty sure that Combined Arms devs beg to differ...

Perhaps I should have been more clear: We cannot maintain the current quality of PR maps and increase the view distance.

We can greatly increase view distance (and map size) by simply exponentially reducing the number of statics and amount of under/overgrowth, and creating terrain out of a static. So yes, technically possible. Is the result desirable? In my opinion, no.

[PatrickLA_CA]

I still say the way to go is to increase lock on times for AA by using a delay click. Give pilots more chances to escape.

Yeah that will be good and I know that it can be done, and also it should be done for HATs and yes we need more flares!

[Arnoldio]

PR devs arent implementing CA's choppers system because they think its OP iirc...

But isnt that the point?

[Alex6714]

Its not OP, unless anything that is more balanced than now is considered OP, which I fear is the case.

[ytman]

Alright, the biggest issue I'm getting here is all the complaining that:

I want to fly a 1337 Apache and go in and rape everything. The fact that I can't do this without being killed by tanks, APCs, and AA pisses me off.

The best solution?

Get on a server that uses mumble to communicate with other squads. Have those squads find out if there is something that can kill you. Have them kill it. Then have them lase a target and do your 1337 pwning then.

Rinse, wash, repeat.

Its all about teamwork. IRL Apaches wont fly into a danger zone or a possible danger zone.

[Drunkenup]

Alright, the biggest issue I'm getting here is all the complaining that:

I want to fly a 1337 Apache and go in and rape everything. The fact that I can't do this without being killed by tanks, APCs, and AA pisses me off.

The best solution?

Get on a server that uses mumble to communicate with other squads. Have those squads find out if there is something that can kill you. Have them kill it. Then have them lase a target and do your 1337 pwning then.

Rinse, wash, repeat.

Its all about teamwork. IRL Apaches wont fly into a danger zone or a possible danger zone.

Apaches will, and thats why they get shot down every once in a while. Its as if nobody understands that Attack Helicopters WILL sustain some heavier calibers, the Apache being top notch at deflecting calibers up to 23mm in some places, thus most IFVs still can shoot it down, but the fact that they are vulnerable to a simple .50 Caliber, which I expect the advanced Havoc, Apache, Cobra, and the so called flying tank Hind should take in. Not seeing that so much. The other problem is AA as well, its point shoot and dead. As said before, I think flares should be heightened to much higher amount, the apache also can carry 60 flares out of optional M130 dispensers, and all choppers should have a significantly longer lock on time by MANPADs, AAVs as most carry a electronic countermeasure, IR blockers, absorbent skin (as seen on the Viper and Apache).