LAV-25 vs BTR-60 0.917

[Hunt3r]

Playing on Muttrah City, =HOG='s 24/7 Muttrah server. I tend to run the APCs a lot, so I have pretty good experience with their relative power.

So the question, to me, is just begging to be asked. What happened to the balance of power between LAVs and BTRs? The LAV in PR now seems to be very weak compared to the BTR. The BTR can kill the LAV with one full load of ready rounds, but the LAV takes a great deal more then 40.

Three BTR-60s against two LAV-25s would mean the end of both LAVs. If the crew is good, they might nab 2 BTRs, injuring the third. A BRDM thrown into the mix would probably mean the BTRs would end up with less casualties.

I'm wondering if there's a change that tilted the balance of power over to the BTR side.

[Moonlight]

1BTR vs 1 LAV ends up in blown up BTR, 1 LAV vs 2 BTRs ends up in one destroyed BTR and destoyed LAV (usually).
People used to be whining that btrs are so weak etc and it hasn't changed much as the only thing that has changed was increasing the 14.5mm "clip" size for BTR-60 from 50 to 100.
Not to mention LAVs are not aimed espcially to fight enemy APCs, Cobra is.

I mean there could be created another thread with: "I use a lot of apcs on muttrah&jabal and my btrs are getting owned by a single LAV, why is so? US have Cobra on muttrah and 4 lavs on jabal! We should get more BMPs to fight those pesky lavs!" etc. ;]

[Nehil]

I would agree with Moonlight. In my opinion the LAV outclasses a BTR-60 in a standard lineup against eachother. Just yesterday I was playing on HOG 24/7 Muttrah and I was driving the BTR. I halt at a t-junction and this LAV runs straight passed us. We persuit. We hit the LAV in the arse with AP rounds, loads of em. It took the LAV about 5 seconds to figure out what was going on and return fire/run away.

Still, we had to fall back because we'd taken too much damage. The alarm was going off, so I drove back to main. That same LAV figures it out and chases us to our main. Nearly took us out.

But perhaps this is a problem with perspectives. I think the BTR is underpowered against the LAV because I usually sit in the BTR. You think the LAV is underpowered because you use the LAV more often than the BTR.

[Tim270]

Its fine as it is, you need 2x BTR's if you want to kill a LAV easily or get good with the BTR.

[USMCMIDN]

IRL the USMC LAV A2 has 14.5mm AP all around protection with an anti spall liner. If the battle is in the near future it would make sense that all the USMC LAV 25A1 have been upgraded to the A2 standard making it stop the 14.5mm AP rounds that the BTRs fire.

Now in the game there needs to be a balance so...Just dont solo the BTRs example Muttrah take all BTRs and that little dinky thing you will be fine.

[Rudd]

Its fine as it is, you need 2x BTR's if you want to kill a LAV easily or get good with the BTR.

I agree, though when I am in BTRs we do our best to make sure its 2 BTRs, 1 Rifleman AT engaging together, with a TOW nearby we can run to for protection if it goes sour.

the BTR works best with an infantry squad, the LAV is also better with an infantry squad, but because of HEAT it can be more self reliant.

[Tim270]

Yeah, the only real way to be effective at fighting LAV's with one BTR is try to 'snipe' them from far away before they can spot you and keep doing hit and run attacks in the attempt to track them before they can get back to the repair station.

Asymmetric balance is more fun.

[Hunt3r]

The LAV should get either have an increase in power or an increase in armor. Just enough to take 110 14.5mm before getting disabled/killed. The LAV-25 is very capable of fighting off BMP-2s, so I don't see why we shouldn't have the power of the autocannon properly modeled.

[Eddie Baker]

The increase in BTR-60s KPV ammo was a mistake that I do not know how occurred. That will be fixed, I assure you.

[Hunt3r]

Oh. If it's going to be fixed, this pretty much renders my ideas pointless. It's nice to know though.

Besides, do BTRs use 100 round belts or 50 round belts?

[Eddie Baker]

Oh. If it's going to be fixed, this pretty much renders my ideas pointless. It's nice to know though.

Besides, do BTRs use 100 round belts or 50 round belts?

They use 50 round belts in 10 boxes (1 ready, 9 stowed) in the KPV and 250 round round belts in 8 boxes (1 ready / 7 stowed). The KPV belts are packed with a pre-determined "party mix," as you found out earlier.

It was set at the correct ammo count before, I don't know how or why it got changed, but we caught the mistake on release a couple of weeks ago and it will be fixed.

[Riflewizard]

I use both occasoinally on muttrah

-BTR's are trash. only good for discouraging enemy helos, annoying enemy LAV's, and killing infantry out of cover.

-LAV's are amazing. Can kill any enemy unit with ease due to ammo choice. He destroys fobs defences and people (450 rounds of it too)
The AP annihilahtes enemy BTR's. They never stand much of a chance. I once saw a tracked LAV stuck behind the gas station. 2 btrs rolled in to attempt to finish it off. they both died rather quickly, to say the least.

I dont think a BTR has ever killed me while in a LAV. Only HAT and TOW's. The city enviroment makes it very difficult for the HAT types anyways due to low view distances and the high speed and firepower of the APC's if the crew is good.

[ytman]

You have to think of the larger picture here. That is Strategy.

Merely because MEC assets =/= US assets does not mean either one is trash. They just fulfill different roles.

BTRs are 3x on Muttrah with LAVs being only 2x. Combine to this that LAVs spawn at a Carrier and have 2-3 minutes before they hit ground (and being at docks is semi vulnerable) while BTRs spawn at main and can take routes that offer protection (buildings).

If you are MEC and you know of LAVs inbound to your BTRs you DO NOT rush them with your BTRs. You lure them with your BTRs and take them out with infantry AT.

If you are US your job is to assist and transport the troops and protect them from the BTRs.

People have a tendency to think that:

Team X is given an APC and Team Y is given an APC its obvious that they must duel with each other all alone!

This is simply not true.

[Hunt3r]

The problem is that your strategy is invalidated in 0.917 because the LAV-25 simply has problems taking on one BTR firing on it, nevermind two.

25mm should blow right through piddly-*** BTRs. :\

[Eriand]

I must admit, it feels as if either the BTRs got buffed, or the LAVs got nerfed.

Played Jabal today. Fully repaied LAV, got tracked, lost turret control in the time it took me to put about 48 rounds into him (AP). Worst thing is, he'd been shot by a LAT just before we got there.

Oh, and he didn't die, he circled us and shot us to death.

Another time 2 BTRs killed us by theirselves in about 2-3 seconds. Shooting at our front.

[SANGUE-RUIM]

I must admit, it feels as if either the BTRs got buffed, or the LAVs got nerfed.

Played Jabal today. Fully repaied LAV, got tracked, lost turret control in the time it took me to put about 48 rounds into him (AP). Worst thing is, he'd been shot by a LAT just before we got there.

Oh, and he didn't die, he circled us and shot us to death.

Another time 2 BTRs killed us by theirselves in about 2-3 seconds. Shooting at our front.

yeah i feel the same... lavs sux now

[Dylan.swe]

Tactics for BTR's has just changed, just like in older versions the BTR suck if used wrong, but the opposite if used right!
LAV now has speed, but is easily tracked if hit in the right spot! As mentioned here u should attack/annoy LAV from a distance hopin for him to chase u...if he does make sure not to waste ammo where it doesnt count!
1on1 battles are mostly in LAV favour cause wrong tactics is used!
And remember that HAT kills the LAV aswell as the BTR in a split second!
The LAT disables both the BTR and LAV for further battle, if u know that LAV is hit by LAT and still not tracked.....just find it and shoot anywhere for 2 secs.....b-o-o-m

Some guy mentioned a tracked LAV takin on 2 btrs.........dream on......at least i couldve killed the LAV by "shooting the tip of the 25-mm barrel to kill it"!!!!!
And how hard is it to move your btr in position where the tracked LAV cant even fire back?......LOOK where his barrel is pointing......3 outta 4 sides around the LAV is absolutely safe to stand at even for INFANTRY (the gunner in the LAV will surely (Shirley?) scream in VOIP that "-I cant aim down on this side.....moooooooove!!!!"
Just because u once met a bunch of drunk russians using BTRs doesnt mean that the vehicle itself is bad!
Just write about it in the "tales from battlefield"-section
BTRs works fine - humans sometimes FAIL (as "we" say in this game)
//Dylan

[manligheten]

Just enough to take 110 14.5mm before getting disabled/killed.

110??? Why not nuke it?
It's silly how much hits the APC can take. Either it takes damage or it doesn't. 7 - 8 rounds should be enough to take a APC out. Especially with the heavier calibres. 3 - 5 hits would be enough. To have the APC circle around eachother shooting whole cassettes of armor piercing ammo at eachother is...silly.

[Rudd]

The problem is that your strategy is invalidated in 0.917 because the LAV-25 simply has problems taking on one BTR firing on it, nevermind two.

25mm should blow right through piddly-*** BTRs. :\

yeah cuz that would make great gameplay

we could rename the mod to "Project Reality - US military pwns all you weakling countries"

[Tim270]

The problem is that your strategy is invalidated in 0.917 because the LAV-25 simply has problems taking on one BTR firing on it, nevermind two.

25mm should blow right through piddly-*** BTRs. :\

If youre LAV is getting killed by one BTR, either you suck or you have been sitting with your rear to the BTR most of the contact....

LAV vs BTR60, LAV will win with a competent crew...