Deployed Machinegun Strangeness

[[k]MuffinMaster]

When firing a machinegun in deployed mode, one can realize the barrel moving upwards, leaving the whole gun hovering off the ground. This is very strange since the deploy mode simulates a machinegun being fired while it's resting on a bipod. In reality™ the barrel is held in position by gravitation and the body of the shooter supporting it with his weight.

Look at this: YouTube - Shooting the Russian PKM Machine Gun

YouTube - Firing the PKM

YouTube - m249 saw <- M249 SAW.

Even if he is giving full auto, the thing is quite controlable

MG3 : YouTube - 1200 rounds per minute!! MG-3 ShuetzenSchnur-Silver

I think someone forgot to turn "gobackonrecoil" to 1

[Tim270]

You cannot deploy/latch on to a material like you can in Red Orchestra etc, the gun will always be floating.

[l|Bubba|l]

He is referring to the recoil effect. It's not about the graphical issues with our current system.

[Tim270]

Ah ok, so the op is saying recoil should push the weapon backwards rather than making it rise?

[[k]MuffinMaster]

Exactly. The gun just should snap back into position after releasing the trigger.
This can be achiveb by chaning one value in the weapons tweak file.

[Chuc]

MuffinMaster;1304841']Exactly. The gun just should snap back into position after releasing the trigger.
This can be achiveb by chaning one value in the weapons tweak file.

Look at the files ingame, that value is already set to one. However the recoil values do provide a net upwards movement, so that is what would have to be changed.

[[k]MuffinMaster]

I can see. It's this whats makes the barrel move upwards:

ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceUp CRD_UNIFORM/7/-2/0

EDIT:

While looking through the files I realized even more strangeness.

Compare the recoil of a M249 SAW (5.56mm NATO weight 4 g, Muzzle velocity= 915 m/s):

ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceUp CRD_UNIFORM/7/-2/0
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceLeftRight CRD_UNIFORM/-4/4/0

To the M-24 (7.62mm NATO weight 9.50 g, Muzzle velocity= 790 m/s):

ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceUp CRD_UNIFORM/3.2/3.2/0
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceLeftRight CRD_UNIFORM/-1.2/1.2/1

As far as i can remember, the higher the value, the more the muzzle moves.
Is there any explanation, why a single shot from a sniper rifle with the force of app. 3,352 Joules
has LESS recoil than a single shot from a LMG with a energy of app. 1,767 Joules ?

Remember, the M249s weight is app. 10 kg (loaded)
The M-24 7.3 kg (with day optical sigh, sling swivels, carrying strap, fully loaded magazine)

Does this reflect reality™ ?

Another EDIT:

I found this website (sorry it's in geman) but I'll translate.

http://www.dr-gmuender.de/inforueckstoss.html#p30

Obwohl das 8-g-Geschoss eine geringfügig höhere Mündungsenergie besitzt, ist die Rückstoßenergie niedriger. Das bedeutet, daß leichtere Geschosse bei gleicher Energie einen geringeren Rückstoß erzeugen.
Die Lab. 2 und 4 sind identisch, lediglich das Waffengewicht ist bei Nr. 4 um 25 % geringer. Die Rückstoßenergie der schwereren Waffe ist um 25 % niedriger. Die Rückstoßenergie ist also umgekehrt proportional zum Waffengewicht. Je leichter die Waffe, desto stärker der Rückstoß.

Translation: Even if the 8-g-bullet has a slightly higher muzzle velocity, the recoil energy is lower. This means, the lighter bullet with the same energy has a lighter recoil. Lab 2 and 4 are identical, only the weight of the weapon Nr. 4 is 25 % higher. The recoil energy of the heavier weapon is 25 % lower. Die recoil energy is reciprocal to the weapons weight. The lighter the weapon, the heavier the recoil.

[Chuc]

I kinda wish you wouldn't throw around the term "reality™" so condescendingly.

Exiled is correct in that the real effective recoil values are that when sighted in, of which deployed weapons have a different modifier setting to counter the recoil when unsighted.

(IDF M24)
zoomModifier 0.3

which when zoomed in, multiplies the recoil values by that number 0.3, resulting in

0.96/0.96/0
-0.36/0.36/0.3

(M249 deployed)

zoomModifier 0.03

0.21/-0.06/0
-0.12/0.12/0

Which is roughly 1/3rd the intensity, though slightly below that because of other reasons..

[BabylonCome]

Isn't this gun accurate enough as it is already, the last thing we need is it to be more deadly - with the scopes now added it's already got the nickname automatic sniper riffle.....

But I do agree, the gun in this deployment would hardly kick up...

[goguapsy]

afaik the "recoil" in-game (the gun floats) is the only way to get the LMG sights to work (shaking when firing). So no possible fix I believe?

[[k]MuffinMaster]

I see, didn't take the modifier into account, but on the other hand, the "upward motion"-strangeness still exists.

As I wrote earlier:

I can see. It's this whats makes the barrel move upwards:

Quote:
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceUp CRD_UNIFORM/7/-2/0

It's this imbalance of values CRD_UNIFORM/7/-2/0

As you can see the motion is a result of statistic distribution. The movement of the barrel
can be in between 7 (upwards) and -2 (downwards).
I found this on deployed machineguns only, rifles e.g. do upwards and a little sideways only:

Example G3:
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceUp CRD_UNIFORM/3.8/3.8/0 (Why is THAT anyway? Shouldn't the BASE recoil be like the M-24 ? since the multipier. is 0.6?)
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceLeftRight CRD_UNIFORM/-1.2/1.2/1

AK-47:
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceUp CRD_UNIFORM/3/3/0
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceLeftRight CRD_UNIFORM/-1.1/1.1/1

92FS:
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceUp CRD_UNIFORM/1.5/1.5/0
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceLeftRight CRD_UNIFORM/-0.3/0.3/1

the values of the machineguns should rather look like this:

ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceUp CRD_UNIFORM/4.5/-4.5/0

This would be the SAME amount of movement but without the tendency to move upward.

This upward motion makes sense with rifles, but with a deployed machinegun it's very strange.

(Note: This is not about deviation, so NO Pro-Über-Automatic-Sniper-Rifle-Post)

[keatsy]

i love how if u also put deployed sniper of machine gun you have a bi pod down and you aim full dead straight. i just lol at thought

[Scr3amX2]

Education system in Australia fails again? I'm sorry but I have no idea what you are saying.

Exiled.

I THINK he's saying that he likes how you're aiming forwards when you go into deployed mode then zoom in.

But I agree, aussie sucks. XD