Stacked Servers

[joethepro36]

.. anyways i know it's boring to always be on the losing team, but do something about it? be a squad leader or commander.. give orders, lead some poor smurfs to the objective.. do something you might find boring, but is benefiting the team.

The thing is when you're leading a pub squad often you are the only one leading a squad properly. I can do an amazing job with a squad or as commander but I HAVE to rely on the rest of my team which is the root of the problem.

[google]

It's really about the spread of leadership within the teams. While there may be many regulars on the un-stacked team, there are often not any regular leaders (or any willing to coordinate). When most regular players log on the server, and gander at the leadership on the two teams, they usually switch to the superiour side. This is the same for regular players who fill the leadership roles. In fact, often people will simply look at the mumble teams before joining and simply join the team with more SLs coordinating. This creates a vortex of coordinating regulars all wanting to be on one side. It is also in essence the "Klingon" phenomenon that was discussed on the TG forums.

Then, when people on the un-stacked team do step up to the plate and try to lead/coordinate, their attempts fall to ruin because the un-stacked team is basically at 50% power as compared to the enemy team which is at 110% power. It really is sad to see 4 players waiting up to 15 minutes just to switch the winning side. So, many will say, "the un-stacked team simply isn't willing to try". Well, to be honest, they can't because all the leadership players always play on the same team. Not to mention, all the inexperienced pubbers usually end up on the un-stacked team.

[Truism]

No one objects to the principle that teams should play their best to try and win, even if the other team has more tags. That's not the drama. The drama is when you join a game and see that the other team is comprised completely of WC, STOMP, N/A, !GUN!, SiN, bD etc and know you're going to lose even before the deploy timer ticks down.

Your know that even if hypothetically all your squads internally functioned flawlessly, even if all your players had the individual skills that you know the clanners have, you know that you lack the infrastructure to have the squads co-ordinate the way the clanners will be. However you know that your team haven't had the 10v10 ladder experience, and you know they'll probably co-ordinate assets to poor effect through lack of practice.

I quit playing Aus servers for about three months in 2008 because the problem was so acute. It was impossible to get a good game for a while there because there'd always be some kind of disgusting teamstack going on. Haven't had any big dramas with it in a long time though.

[BlackwaterSaxon]

Teamstacking is always going to be an issue, especially on a game such as this which requires teamwork.

I used to be part of a clan on another game, we would split into two teams and the slow trickle of pubs would fill the gap, both of these mini-clans would know how to play the game and would point pubs in the right direction of what we need to do to win, it worked pretty well and we never had any problems or complaints about team stacking because both sides found it rewarding having some of us on different teams. Apart from that, it's always good to shoot the **** out of someone you usually play alongside, and forces people to rethink how they play the game and manage assets because the people on the other team know what you'll be doing.

In all honesty I haven't seen that much team stacking going on, the odd problem of the locked 3/6 squad when all the other squads are full has been a problem and something the admins should be looking in to, especially when the clans doing this don't even own the server. Just yesterday I was playing a game, we were losing pretty badly, and had quite alot of infantry stuck without any armour support. I died and respawned back at main to see a tank parked up, engine running, with one person in it, we asked why his 1 man quad was locked and he replied "I'm waiting for someone to join the server", so while we're getting mullered by enemy armour, this guy thought it would be a good idea to procure a TEAM asset and wait for one of his friends, oh and his squad remained one man locked for the entirety of the game, his friend never showed.

Teamplay is always going to cause problems in this game, people running away from squad leaders and not following orders, shouting "you're not the boss of me" to their squad leader as they run off into the distance with a sniper kit. People don't seem to realise that this isn't vanilla, you actually have to work as a team in this game and that means following the orders of the squad leader, the squad that YOU PICKED to join. This is just one of the reasons why I don't go SL.

[ytman]

I'm laughing pretty hard at the people who are like "It's not stacked teams, it's that you suck, skill up ffs."

I am not saying that specific people suck and need to improve skills. I am saying that the team as a whole needs to work together better. I play TG all the time and quite simply everytime I lose a round massively I realize that they simply outplayed us and that our team just couldn't shape up right.

That's exactly what they're saying. If you join a game and can see that one team is much better than the other before a shot is even fired, you probably have stacked teams.

I believe stacking is all a phantom of perception a lot. How well a team does is based on the direct abilities of their squad leaders. Largely it is not a whole squad worth of people who have the effect of difference it is simply two or three smart and cooperative squad leaders.

It's not like one team is magically going to improve it's co-ordination and teamwork beyond the realms of possibility just because they other team is known to all be on Mumble, all train together and all have common tactics and doctrine.

You'd be surprised how many people start to use mumble because of TG...

By the logic of the people in this thread, who are very, very clearly teamstackers themselves,

Thanks for the insinuating comment that is completely false. I stick with the team I am auto-assigned to, losing or winning, stacked for or against. I cling on to that team and try to organize it and offer advice and even when a loss is immense I fight with honor like a Klingon. ;D

Though I will admit frustration does get the better of me at times and even I complain about teamstacking. Still, in the end I know that its less about their team being good and more about my team being inefficient.

armies should not train their squads together, because there is no benefit in that. Instead, the armies that don't train together, upon losing a war, should come to the realisation that they just should have magically individually all been better.

This is what internal scrims are for.

Seriously, what a joke. Stacked teams benefit no one at all outside of organised competition where one team's callsign is better than the other team's. I'm not sure how my infraction count is going, or I'd drop a whole wad of other things into this post making it just a little clearer what I think of people like you.

I agree to an extent. The issue is people play PR to firstly have fun. A part of having fun is playing with your friends and acquaintances. Why is it fair of you to ask a well oiled machine to disassemble its parts and have no fun just so they can be on a team that doesn't want to work well together?

[mangeface]

If it happens continuously on a particular server , remember its YOUR CHOICE to play there.

And that be why I don't play on Hardcore's servers anymore, because that's the server I see team stacking on the most...TG for life!

[Rudd]

if you don't like how a server operates, don't play there, if your feelings reflect others, then those servers will be empty and the problem will be over.

DO NOT ACCEPT BAD SERVERS, boycott them and they will disappear, The Power is in the hands of the PR Community, USE IT.

[joethepro36]

if you don't like how a server operates, don't play there, if your feelings reflect others, then those servers will be empty and the problem will be over.

DO NOT ACCEPT BAD SERVERS, boycott them and they will disappear, The Power is in the hands of the PR Community, USE IT.

This is the best advice here. I currently boycott H, UKWF and TAR (if there are admins on) as they are the servers with the most consistent team stacking (especially UKWF). Each of those are servers where I have spent more than 6-7 hours in a row (pretty much an entire weekend day) getting raped by a superior team with the admins telling me I should play better rather than balance the teams. My main server as a Brit is NWA which I've yet to see team stacking on although playing a single server can get very boring due to same maps.


Now as I've said earlier I pretty much always squad lead. 95% of the time in PR I'm an SL or a commander and I try my best to do what is best for the team. 6 guys however do not make the difference when going against a co-ordinated enemy with 3rd party coms and a highly skilled playerbase. Whenever I lose four rounds in a row that go far beyond a typical defeat with a greater than 2 K/D ratio I just quit and stay off the server forever.

Stackingwise (in my opinion) it goes like this for me:
UKWF has nearly always stacked when I've played on it. I'll typically see all of the UKWF guys with about 6 MERK guys on the same side and then lose via attrition. Stacking isn't absolutely an "Oh my god I've already lost" on this server, more a "One time more into the grinder, eh chaps?". I generally lose over a long and on occasion satisfying game where my team is crushed by inferior coms and teamwork.

H has large amounts of H members stacking although less commonly than UKWF. I also have problems working with H members as some of them have ignored my ingame requests repeatedly (intentionally). This is a server where I have had the worst effects of stacking which is total and absolute victory for one side, pretty much a no contest for my team. This doesn't happen too often but you'll know it when you see it.

TAR is only teamstacked on occasion but when it is stacked, it's really stacked. I've seen about half a team as TAR members raping my entire team to a 150:2 K/D ratio on one laughable occasion but it's typically not that bad as I lose to attrition generally. (got raped as inf by armour on kashan then stuck in base this is also an occasion where our team was beyond abysmal).

On the postive side:
TG is often very balanced and has TG on both sides. Very high standard of play with extremely satisfying games. I've never had a problem with teamstacking here, pretty much all losses have been after a fair and decisive fight.

NWA is never (to my knowledge) teamstacked because I think they have about 5-10 admins who are not on a lot. Additionally not many clans play on it so it's often a pubber vs pubber matchup with the benefits AND the negatives that entails. I play this server more than any other and don't have problems on it.


One server we do need populated more often is the DEV kill house which when populated has been one of the best servers I've ever played on. And one server we need less populated is TG so I can get in more often.

(DISCLAIMER: This entire post is a subjective opinion, is not a factual document and merely a summary of experiences as a general pubber.)

[arneboe]

10th is also a very good server IMO.. i also see a lot of other old-skool Pr players there..

My friend and I, joined a server (can't remember which one) the other day.. map was Jabal al Burj.. we spawned as MEC and we (MEC) were beeing raped by a teamstacked USMC..
I made a squad, my friend joined and soon the squad was full. Our squad made an attempt attacking DAM and neutralized it, but the enemy presence was to strong and our team ignored our cries for backup. After holding dam neutralized for about 10min our last squadmember was finally taken out.. by then we had started defending Jabal City center.. the Jabal flag was soon grey, but we didn't give up and held our ground! in the end our team had given up and we were the only squad left defending (some smurfs around aswell).. the alarm sounded and we lost 0-12!!! we almost turned the fight ...

Next round the teams were exactly the same and our team CRUSHED the teamstacked team... my point is this.. don't give up before you have even started! it dosn't take too much to turn the game around! If you are on your heels loosing, pull back, find defensive positions, organize yourselves with good fields of fire and bleed the tickets out of the "winning" team! i have seen this be done several times.. and done right, it works

Good luck on the field!

[bad_nade]

if you don't like how a server operates, don't play there, if your feelings reflect others, then those servers will be empty and the problem will be over.

DO NOT ACCEPT BAD SERVERS, boycott them and they will disappear, The Power is in the hands of the PR Community, USE IT.

Already did. These bad servers, along with some of the latests changes to PR, made me and couple of my friends to stop playing PR altogether. Lets see how the game and the servers feels around next patch.

[Pronck]

He has a little bit right in the way how the =)H(= is doing it. When you join the server you will see almost all of them on one sight. It is like giving insurgents water-pistols and the BLUFOR troops lazorguns. I see it as abuse of their power. And also the fact that the "popular" server at prime time (GMT +0.00) don't use mumble but ventrilo. (Or there's nobody on the mumble server). That all makes it unequal against the "normal" players.

[KasperX]

Yup, I agree with the ppl in here in regards to Chicago servers. =H= and prwars always tend to stack one side. I try once in a while to go back to the server, only to be quickly reminded why I don't enjoy playing there. It happened last night again. Logged into Chicago...and there's the team stacked. You would think after completely DESTROYING the other team they would try to balance the teams...nope. Left and waited for a spot in TG. TG is the best server to play on!

My advice, just leave the server and find another one. They pay for it so they can do as they please. If less ppl login to their server, perhaps they'd have to play against eachother.

[CallousDisregard]

I would like to point out that one of the reasons the TG server is regarded as "better" on the teamstacking issue is the players themselves.
People on TG will swap if the teams get too far out of balance.
If you are on the side that has won the last 2-3 rounds and you think you are 1337, then swap teams, maybe even take your squad with you and help to balance out the teams.
I don't really play on H so I can't comment but if you do and you find yourself on the winning team ....just announce that you are going to switch for balance and I think you will be surprised at how many others on the winning team will switch with you.
If there are multiple clans that will always try to stack the deck, find another server.

[TOME Malambri]

Yup, I agree with the ppl in here in regards to Chicago servers. =H= and prwars always tend to stack one side.

Why are people including prwars in this stupid argument? We have literally 5-7 people that play on a regular basis on that server....usually not even enough to fill a whole squad. I promise that if you are getting smashed in that server, it is not a result of our clan wanting to stick together.

[PLODDITHANLEY]

In the RT days we often asked regulars to squad lead, even if they would prefer to play with their mates.

Helps spread good team work game play to new visitors to the server.
Equal Battles, I personally enjoy fighting against mates as much as alongside.
Assistance in sorting out or DLing mumble if possible.

PR is a 'niche' game with a small community, i think we have an obligation to this community to try and welcome and help out new guys every now and again.

TG has realised this if we don't propagate and look after new players a bit - they leave.

[TheOldBreed]

it's no ones fault (especially the clan guys) that the team you were on sucked at teamwork.

i'm not in a clan, but if i got friends playing on the same server, i'd switch teams or vice versa to play with them. it's all about teamwork and playing with the guys you know/trust.

[-.-Maverick-.-]

Well isn't that why you join a clan? To use tactics and to play with guys you know not just random pubbers?

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

He has a little bit right in the way how the =)H(= is doing it. When you join the server you will see almost all of them on one sight. It is like giving insurgents water-pistols and the BLUFOR troops lazorguns. I see it as abuse of their power. And also the fact that the "popular" server at prime time (GMT +0.00) don't use mumble but ventrilo. (Or there's nobody on the mumble server). That all makes it unequal against the "normal" players.

It's been said so many times before, we welcome any player 18 years old and up to join our Vent channel. The IP is shown as an in game message, it is posted smack dab in the middle of the top aof our web page. The only thing stopping players from joining is the players themselves.

[Narco]

Well isn't that why you join a clan? To use tactics and to play with guys you know not just random pubbers?

Yes but you have to think of the quality of play when you own a server.

20 clan guys that know each others habits and how they play is ALWAYS going to destroy a pub team. Every time.

[Rissien]

Yes but you have to think of the quality of play when you own a server.

20 clan guys that know each others habits and how they play is ALWAYS going to destroy a pub team. Every time.

Wrong right there, weve had plenty of times weve gotten our asses kicked. Ive played a round on Archer for example I was the only H member on Taliban, we had at least 12 H members on Canadians and they got creamed.