Reinforcement game mode

[badmojo420]

While I understand the idea that when a soldier dies, the respawn process is to simulate another soldier being sent in to replace him. I dislike the cause and effect this system creates.

Basically a soldier gets killed by an enemy. He dies, and then 45seconds later, a soldier pops out of the outpost, and makes his way back to his squad. I dislike this system for the same reason I disliked the rally system, it's just too easy to die and come back quickly. Your squad is only at a disadvantage for a minimal amount of time and we all know that players don't care about dying as much as they realistically should.

So, my solution would be a new game mode using AAS as the core. But, rather than just spawning whenever you feel like it, players would be restricted to spawning only during reinforcement periods.

These periods would be a set number on the game timer. And the start of the round would be the first reinforcement period. And then for example, every 15minutes, there would be a 1 minute window, where all the spawns turn from red to gray, letting people spawn.

So it wouldn't be very difficult to know when your reinforcements are coming, or as a dead soldier, to know when you're going to be spawning in. Because, the times would be something easy to remember like....

3:00:00 - Game start, 5minute spawn window
2:45:00 to 2:44:00 1 minute spawn window
2:30:00 to 2:29:00 1 minute spawn window
etc
etc

This would hopefully make the kills mean something MORE than just tickets. And not just to the player being killed. If as a squad you sucessfully take out a large amount of enemies, you know you can most likely push forward, because they will be lacking the troops to provide a sufficient defense.

One downside i can already see is people watching the clock and orienting their attacks around either times where no reinforcements can be gained by the enemy, OR where quick reinforcements could be had by any casualties your team sustains. Like waiting until the minute is done to attack or attacking just before a spawning window.

Anyway, I just thought i'd quickly write up my idea, I have more to add, but don't have time now.

Hopefully this is something people would be interested in.

[Tarantula]

The downside isnt really a downside, if anything it would cause more teamwork and give real purpose to pushing for a flag, go now so they cant come back. I like the idea, needs to be tested and on larger maps, ala kashan, may be a bit frustrating.

[arneboe]

15 minutes is a bit too long of a wait i think.. don't misunderstand me, I love the idea, but beeing away 5 minutes or something around that would be better.. if you die just after the respawn it would be like; "i have to wait 15 minutes!!!!, nah.. i quit"

[myles]

Its a good idea but people would get frustrated specially if a civi penltey then they wouldint be able to spawn in at the same time and i also could see people doing less TW as they could not be botherd to wait for squad mate.

[Beowulf2525]

It's a good idea, but I think that's where the video game aspect of PR assumes its' roll. Long respawn times will only cause servers to lose people I think. While it would really stress teamwork, it would also take a lot of fun away.

[maarit]

hmm,maybe this would be good.
its very rare that i feel any victory during the round cos there is just fobvsfob going on.

if our team slaughter 30 zombies who comes from the forest,that should be enough killing.
opposite teams general should say that stop this madness,its masacre.dont go"spawn" there anymore.
fobs should have "health",when too much of dying is going on,its the end.
or death should cost lot more tickets.

or we could do it like in your suggestion.
kill the enemys...then comes 15 minute silence...proceed to outpost,burn it down,clear all the enemy in bushes.
and i dont think that 15 minutes would be too long.
i think that its a minimun what you should try to stay alive in this game.
and if your squad is still alive after 15 minutes,squadleaders rally is armed,you have medic...

[Imchicken1]

15 minutes would be far to long. Other than that tho, it's a great idea to really force teamwork and stratigizing (sp?)

[0331SgtSpyUSMC]

What would stop you from disconnecting form the server and re-connecting right back to avoid the timer penalty

[Rudd]

^ or people just walking away from their computers to get a cup of tea and coming back in 15mins?

would turn PR in to PW tbh, Project Waiting.

destroy their FOBs, not just taking their flags is how you stop the enemy reinforcements.

[Rabbit]

What if instead it was once the players dead/alive on a team hits a ratio or percent. EX 32v32 team 1 has 4 guys left so re spawn is allowed.

[Acemantura]

What would stop you from disconnecting form the server and re-connecting right back to avoid the timer penalty

No matter when you come in, the spawn window is opened and closed at a server time.

It's a good idea, but 15 minutes is far too long, and even 5 minutes is. This should be implemented either as PR's hardcore gamemode or for skirmishes, but not something to be played all the time.

[Tim270]

1) This would actually inhibit teamwork - There is barely any inter squad communication of servers anyway, let alone when most of the people are dead. If anything it will encourage camping rather than co-ordinated squad play.

2) Armour would dominate - A example would be Kashan, a tank could easily sit in the mountain and snip a good 2 inf squads early on, then for the next 15 one team would have nobody left on the group that was going to cap flags. Who is going to want to go and try and cap front-line flags when they know if they die they will have to sit and do nothing for 15 mins?

3) Games would become far to short - If one team takes heavy losses at the start, there is no room for comeback as the other team could cap out a whole map in 15 mins.

4) Boring! - I spend any time I die in PR ALT tabbed, this is just going to encourage people to quit as soon as they die.

See FH's spawn waves for a idea of how this can work.

[badmojo420]

15minutes was just a number I threw out there. It could be set to whatever works.

------


I also had an idea that could maybe be worked into this. Commander controlled reinforcements. Basically the same system, except instead of waiting for a number on the clock, the commander would have a button on his screen that enables the spawns for 1minute. Then it takes XX number of minutes to recharge.

This would create some potential problems, what if the commander was an idiot and won't click the button, what if the commander crashes mid game, what if there is no commander, what if the commander is unreasonable about the reinforcements, or what if the commander comms become flooded with SLs pleading for reinforcements to be called. There are solutions to them, but these would need to be considered.

It would be nice if it was the semi-old way that FOBs were constructed, where if there was no commander you can build em, but if there is, he needs to approve the order. So if there wasn't a commander, the reinforcements would come every XX number of minutes, but if there is a commander present, he has to click the button.

----

Rudd brought up a good point about people just leaving for 15minutes. Which is totally the idea behind having spawns every X number of minutes. So people can look at the clock after they die, say to themselves "Okay, in 8 minutes i can spawn, time to go make a snack"

Which might not be for everyone. But personally, I accept waiting up to 15minutes sometimes, if it meant that the standard of gameplay would improve. It's a hardcore mode of PR, dying means something, keeping your fellow teammates alive will keep your team strong. Something that is highly lacking from the current PR modes.

Think about this, if your tasked with attacking a flag. And on your way to that flag, you see a squad of enemies heading the opposite direction. In the current AAS mode, it would be unwise to eliminate that squad. Because they will respawn on the FOB you're about to attack. Adding 6 more people to the defensive line. Instead you should avoid contact, and move in on the flag, while they're busy attacking your flag.

Is that not a crazy way of thinking? It works, but it's totally unnatural. In real life, you would eliminate the enemies on sight, and not have to worry about 6 more guys materializing next to the objective your going to be attacking shortly, and not only that, but they now know exactly where you were 60 seconds ago. Shouldn't that knowledge require some form of communication? Shouldn't the attacking squad gain some form of advantage from eliminating enemies that stand in their way?

------

Another thing it would accomplish is to put the game into the hands of the team. By that I mean the worst players on the team could no longer be a huge drain of tickets. With a system like this, a bad player could only die once every 15minutes. The current system, enables bad players to waste your teams tickets and vehicles, with no incentive to change their ways. Does it really matter if I go a whole round only dying twice if some joeblow player can rack up 10+ deaths?

I could also see it giving increased incentive to vehicle crews to bail out when things go bad.

[badmojo420]

1) This would actually inhibit teamwork - There is barely any inter squad communication of servers anyway, let alone when most of the people are dead. If anything it will encourage camping rather than co-ordinated squad play.

Camping isn't a bad thing in a game like PR. It's realistic for one thing. You have to remember, when the spawn window opens, and a large amount of people all spawn at the same time, there will be some unintentional teamwork happening. Weather it's defending the FOB, sharing vehicles, or even just moving together.

2) Armour would dominate - A example would be Kashan, a tank could easily sit in the mountain and snip a good 2 inf squads early on, then for the next 15 one team would have nobody left on the group that was going to cap flags. Who is going to want to go and try and cap front-line flags when they know if they die they will have to sit and do nothing for 15 mins?

Armour already dominates on maps like Kashan. Yet, you still see them get destroyed by AT and air strikes all the time.

Who is going to want to assault when faced with a possible 15minute penalty for dying? Someone who is confident in their assault.

In the current PR system, people continually perform suicidal assaults because there is no major consequences. I feel this is a problem that affects gameplay and this system would help in fixing it. Perhaps you don't see that as a problem, and enjoy the gameplay it creates. To each their own.

3) Games would become far to short - If one team takes heavy losses at the start, there is no room for comeback as the other team could cap out a whole map in 15 mins.

Personally I'd rather lose in a landslide victory for the other team, then to play a 3hr round that consists of us continually throwing ourselves into a meat grinder. If you can't even dig in and defend 1 flag, your team deserves to lose in under 15minutes. Maybe you'll get your act together on the next map.

4) Boring! - I spend any time I die in PR ALT tabbed, this is just going to encourage people to quit as soon as they die.

This game mode wouldn't be for everyone. Just like C&C, Vehicle warfare, & Skirmish aren't enjoyed by all. Nobody is saying we should replace all of PR with this idea.

See FH's spawn waves for a idea of how this can work.

Can you briefly explain it maybe? I don't really feel like downloading and playing a MOD, just to see how their game mode works.

[goguapsy]

As everyone said, that is a great idea - the downside is actually a strategical thing... PERHAPS if we could have RANDOM reinforcements, this could work better - ie. You are in the middle of an attack and you, unluckly, gets reinforcement right on your face - with a max reinforcement gap of 10 minutes (and minimum of 5 - if you don't get revived in 5 minutes, you'll respawn - no bIG loss here really.

While I'd love to play this game, I don't think I would be able to - too time consuming I suppose.

[billdan]

guys, the 15 minutes was just a number...it can be changed

[ComradeHX]

We do this in airsoft a lot:

Only spawn when there are 2/3/4/5/more guys in the spawn point, so it looks more like a wave.

^That should change it a little.

[badmojo420]

(and minimum of 5 - if you don't get revived in 5 minutes, you'll respawn - no bIG loss here really.

I think it should be higher than 5. Just to encourage waiting for medic for the full duration, and not being able to run back and grab your kit.

5 minutes would work if it went from the time you died, but not when it's timed. You spawn, then the next XX minutes are your expected life. If you die 2seconds in, you have to wait longer. If you stay alive for a while and then die, you wait less. Of course if you live long enough it'll bump back up to XX minutes, but it's always counting down. Very rarely would you ever have to wait the full XX minutes beyond your normal spawn time. Especially if the times are known.

Perhaps an adjustable reinforcement timer setting for server admins?

[ytman]

^ or people just walking away from their computers to get a cup of tea and coming back in 15mins?

would turn PR in to PW tbh, Project Waiting.

destroy their FOBs, not just taking their flags is how you stop the enemy reinforcements.

The idea of FO's and HO's in my understanding is a temporary garrison of troops. The soldier to replace the dead one is theoretically at the FO/HO the entire time, however, only when the play actually respawns is he in the game.

Basically, as Rudd says, with the size of maps that PR is moving towards 16km^2 there is no need for wave spawning since travel time is so large. Destroy the FO/HO and you've cut off immediate reinforcements.

[Ts4EVER]

FH2 will have a system like that next patch. Basically you can only spawn in certain intervalls. We hope that will lead to squads spawning together more, thus giving the illusion of a bigger battle and making Teamwork easier.