Beruit and Russia Fed: Or why Russia learned to love the AT

[ytman]

Beruit is a nice fun urban Assault map with some really intense fights. I have been the commander of two well organized TG server bouts on Beruit, one as 16 layout and the other as 64 layout, both as the Russian team.

I use this information over standard pub rounds due to the higher level of cooperation both teams had.

Both Versions (16/64)

The random AAS layout, like many random AAS maps, allows for some sorta wacky CP layouts. Compared to the more organized layouts of other Semi-Random AAS maps (Silent Eagle, Dragonfly, Barracuda, Muttrah) this can result into a situation that largely favors a defensive Russian stance or a balls to the wall Russian attack.

For example the initial Russian flag can be on the West side at the docks and the second flag can reveal all the way at the East of the city. While this layout is certainly doable it does give the Russians little chance to both attack and prevent a counter attack from forcing them off the map.

Furthermore, I personally find (and this is merely personally) such a layout counter intuitive of the Russian amphibious mission. In two other assault maps (SE and Muttrah) there is an easily decernable 'push' that the BluFor is doing.

Muttrah: Docks->North City-> 1 of 2 central City Flags-> South -> Fort
SE : Airfield-> 1 of 3 Perimeter flags->Central->1 of 3 Russian Perimeter Flags-> Missile-> Main

I suggest that the initial flag in Beruit has a second nearby flag to afford a close 'perimeter' CP to resemble a BluFor "Push".

So we have:

Docks-> some Island Perimeter flag-> some City flag-> South Apartments flag->....etc..

Factory-> Some nearby city/East Apartments Flag-> some city flag->south apartments flag-> etc...

This would give the Russians, who lack proper armor/ground transport, a better foot hold and focus the fighting more.

I would also like to say that the current spawn for Amphibious vehicles offers the Russians +2 minutes to land fall on the shortest route (Factory) and probably around 5 or 8 for Docks. This is hardly a vaiable method of transport from base and is almost devastating for the the 64 version where the only Counter-Merkava vehicle the russians have is in the from of the Spandral.

That brings me to the last bit. I feel that Russia, for staging a daring amphibious raid against the Occupying IDF, is woefully under-equipped. All other invading armies (in other maps) have brought enough firepower to at least match the enemy's assets. In Beruit, specifically the 64 version, the Merkava has nearly free reign due to a combination of only 1 psuedo-AT vehicle and the long trek to land.

The issue is further compound by the fact that Russia has a Close Range only HAT kit and urban terrain that counters the effectiveness of the Russian TOW (only at City fighting).

The obvious suggestion, and has been said before, is including a Havok. I feel this is too obvious (even if a good idea) and would rather see a small fleet of BMP-3's (2 to be exact, perhaps 2 that don't respawn and 2 that do, like Jabal/Muttrah) aiding the Russian Attack.

[Excavus]

BMP-3s aren't really that needed. 2 Spandrels and maybe like 3-4 BTR-80s could do the trick, or go like Muttrah and add a non respawnable Attack Mi-8 (It's been modeled and skinned), a respawnable Havok that spawns later and 2 BTR-80s (How many LAVs do the Marines get again?).

The Russians also need their scoped PKP and RPG-7 kits.

[ComradeHX]

The Russians also need their scoped PKT and RPG-7 kits.

I hope you mean scoped PKM, because PKT is fired via solenoid (used in tanks...).

[dtacs]

This would give the Russians, who lack proper armor/ground transport, a better foot hold and focus the fighting more.

Disagree, the BTR-80 is the most effective transport vehicle in PR. Hence this round I had on Beirut (mechanized BTR-80 squad), where we cleaned them out with ease.

I would also like to say that the current spawn for Amphibious vehicles offers the Russians +2 minutes to land fall on the shortest route (Factory) and probably around 5 or 8 for Docks. This is hardly a vaiable method of transport from base and is almost devastating for the the 64 version where the only Counter-Merkava vehicle the russians have is in the from of the Spandral.

The spawn either needs to be quicker (not on the bloody 10m timer) or the BTR-80's need their boost back. The BRDM's have it and get to the shore incredibly fast, while the BTR's take roughly 3 or so minutes, not fast enough.

That brings me to the last bit. I feel that Russia, for staging a daring amphibious raid against the Occupying IDF, is woefully under-equipped. All other invading armies (in other maps) have brought enough firepower to at least match the enemy's assets. In Beruit, specifically the 64 version, the Merkava has nearly free reign due to a combination of only 1 psuedo-AT vehicle and the long trek to land.

It is better than the previous version with two Merkavas, almost impossible.

It also takes two Spandrels to kill the Merkava, (and THREE Tandem RPGs < total load of BS IMO) however the Russians key to anti armor operations is a well placed TOW. On top of the large oil drums at Factory is an excellent spot, with about 20% of the map locked down.

The issue is further compound by the fact that Russia has a Close Range only HAT kit and urban terrain that counters the effectiveness of the Russian TOW.

I disagree with the range, although the power can be bumped up a little. It puts a Bradley on fire to one shot in the side, and kills an M113 outright (I got a shot off the huge towers @ factory into one from about 300m on the move )

The obvious suggestion, and has been said before, is including a Havok. I feel this is too obvious (even if a good idea) and would rather see a small fleet of BMP-3's (2 to be exact, perhaps 2 that don't respawn and 2 that do, like Jabal/Muttrah) aiding the Russian Attack.

Disagree.A BMP-3 would be huge overkill. A Havok, sure. But to be honest we should wait for the BMP-2 to be introduced if it ever is, that would be significantly more balanced than the 3.

Until that is introduced however, the best option is a BTR-80A, which two or so should be able to take out the Merkava (shooting the rear).

My favorite map in the game though, even though its a little imbalanced.

[Deer]

alt-layer's flag system is more like you suggested, but admins still aint running anything else than standard layers of all maps....

Ill tweak vehicle layout for sure, and maybe flags too. Large amount of transport helicopters were supposed to make russian side strong, so they could build firebases very easily and they wont get stuck at the carrier, but ppl just cant be arsed to build firebases enough it seems.

[ytman]

If I recall correctly .9 didn't have an Alternate layout right? Was it introduced in .917?

Why is the BMP-3 such overkill? This is an honest question as I haven't gotten much play time with or against it. My suggestion to avoid the Havok was to have Beruit remain unique from Muttrah. But if the BMP-3 is 'broken' then I guess not :\ . I feel that a BMP-3 would provide the Russians an excellent staging platform. It is a nice power horse that makes its pressence known and would allow an infantry push into the opponent's terrain much like the Merkava allows for the IDF now.

Really the biggest issue I feel is that 3 Tandems are required to kill the Merkava. I honestly have no understanding of IDF tanks and Russian H-ATs in RL. I remember hitting a Merkava twice in the top armor with a tandem to little effect :\.

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The map is great fun

[Teek]

As it stands now, the cargo ship spawns 9 Hips. If you had one pilot for each bird you would have a quarter of the team flying, also the ship only accomidates maybe 4 helps on the deck safely at a time. 3 transport Hips and one hip with rockets, all on a swift 3 minute spawn would give you the same amount of helicopters in the air as you normally get, and the quick spawn time gives you a uptime that would be pretty close, (but if you wanted a 4th helicopter to spawn on th rear landing pad for a spare would work too)

[Psyrus]

Ill tweak vehicle layout for sure, and maybe flags too. Large amount of transport helicopters were supposed to make russian side strong, so they could build firebases very easily and they wont get stuck at the carrier, but ppl just cant be arsed to build firebases enough it seems.

Honestly, I don't think it's needed. I hate it when things have to be dumbed down for the lowest common denominator. Dtacs posted a round before where they had the IDF capped to their main, here's one I posted the other day of the exact same thing on a different round:



We had 9 firebases up during the course of that 2 hour round (2 were commander removed to make room for new ones, 2 were destroyed by enemies). Counteracting peoples' utter laziness [or lack of cerebral capacity] in avoiding proper firebase creation and defense by bumping their asset power/numbers is disheartening to me. I say this because as you've mentioned, the high number of transport helis mean that the russians have a massive transport advantage over the idf's fail apcs & open jeeps, but the russians lack 'big' firepower like the tank that the IDF have. It is a hard fought battle to establish a foothold but honestly, beirut is one of the best maps in PR right now in my opinion (best of all of the 0.9 releases) and dumbing it down to cater for heavy asset whores or people who can't grasp the game dynamics is... shattering!

I trust in your ability to retain the asymmetric aspects whilst perhaps making it easier on people to play russia , but I hope it doesn't go the way of gary... where we go from one extreme to the other overcompensated extreme

[Excavus]

I hope you mean scoped PKM, because PKT is fired via solenoid (used in tanks...).

I meant scoped PKP.

[GeorgRavioli]

I meant scoped PKP.

Yeah the only problem is that the PKP ('Pecheneg') is only issued to MVD and some units in Chechnya-wait this is in very near future so it could work.

[DankE_SPB]

I meant scoped PKP.

current PKM already have zoom, which PKP will have and now its even better, since there is no black ring blocking your view

Yeah the only problem is that the PKP ('Pecheneg') is only issued to MVD and some units in Chechnya

you're wrong on this

[Nebsif]

wait wut, PR is gonna have PKP?

[samogon100500]

BMP-3s aren't really that needed. 2 Spandrels and maybe like 3-4 BTR-80s could do the trick, or go like Muttrah and add a non respawnable Attack Mi-8 (It's been modeled and skinned), a respawnable Havok that spawns later and 2 BTR-80s (How many LAVs do the Marines get again?).

The Russians also need their scoped PKP and RPG-7 kits.

I think need beirut requied BMP-2,cuz Russian Army have ,but it's unbalanced,if IDF would be use M113 cuz is't really sux APC!
I think M113 must make more armour and more speed(Not faster that truck,not slowly like tank)
or be replase by Namer IFV:


Anyway - PKP and RPG7+ optics = +1

P.s I have suggestion about Beirut - Russian army looks like Marines!But marines not use Mi8!
They use Ka29(But they request model)!

[THE.FIST]

Da comrade m113 suxors we are still kinda making namer apc , takes too long