APC/BTR etc,Transporter vs infantery l33t killing Tank kill machine.

[DDT]

APC/BTR etc Armoured Personal Carrier.


In the context of PR I think it´s pretty safe to say that this is mainly a vehicle for transporting troops safely and backup infantery squads in coordinated maneuvers getting the added protection against RPG and LAT/HAT by having troops nearby looking out for their much beloved Iron taxi. Contrary to running around like a portable sniper machine trying to rack up kills.


SL's should have priority to call in land based transportation for their squads. The key here is teamplay and to work together instead of driving around by yourself. The problem here is that the apc squads are almost never focused on a transport role, Of course it can somtimes be useful to get som easy infantery and FOB kills with a 2 manned Apc, but I stress that transporting should be prioritized above all.

The developer tried to convey this by giving crazy points to the people actually ferrying troops around and giving fire support at the squads drop off and load in locale.

One solution is to play on the right server where people know how utilize the team aspect of APC's.

Another is to remove killcount for kills attained by gunning in these vehicles, to somewhat deter the selfish suckers that are drawned to the fact that it's realatively easy to get a high killcount by using them as an renegade (whereas teamplay is concerned ) Infantery hunting Tank.

Edit : /Thoughts ?

[mistryx]

what are you saying? you are starting a discussion which no-one can disagree on? besides the suggestion has been suggested many many times.

[Narco]

their much beloved Iron taxi.

I see what you did there...

[DDT]

what are you saying? you are starting a discussion which no-one can disagree on? besides the suggestion has been suggested many many times.

Yes I know but "disagreeing" is not necessarily imperative for discussion. Elaboration and feedback can take many forms.

I just wanted to do a refresh for the influx of new players (as well a get rid of some frustration). Yes I am aware of the age old Iron Taxi debate but still it´s a problem. Or if you like a point you can make towards better TEAMPLAY, in a positive way, not framing it as a "problem".

[DDT]

I don't think the stats will matter. They know they got the kills and it's really the act of getting kills that matters to the player, not some arbitrary reward on a score sheet.

Point taken but this would mean no more Tab-ing to get the insta stat satisfaction. More people than you think look to the score sheet, if nothing else just for sheer habit, kicks or passing time. I´ve even seen people toting screenshots of their l33tness.

Removing this could be argued to work towards quenching this behavior. An ongoing debate by itself for a vast array of "roles" to induce Teamplay.

[Nebsif]

lol its not the APC crew that goes around killing ppl instead of transporting.. no1 wants APC transport and every1 prefer the noisy and fast helis. The only map where ppl do want APC trans is silent eagle, at the beginning of the round on russian side simply cuz there are no choppers. Also, if u stay on one place near some infantry squad, some1 can always go prone --> stand with LAT/HAT while behind cover and no1 will see it coming, so ya always have to stay on teh move.

[Smiddey723]

From my experience, the APC is very rarely needed for transporting infantry but you are right when you say they dont often respond to calls from infantry requesting transport. However i dont think anything needs to be changed.

[DDT]

lol its not the APC crew that goes around killing ppl instead of transporting.. no1 wants APC transport and every1 prefer the noisy and fast helis. The only map where ppl do want APC trans is silent eagle, at the beginning of the round on russian side simply cuz there are no choppers. Also, if u stay on one place near some infantry squad, some1 can always go prone --> stand with LAT/HAT while behind cover and no1 will see it coming, so ya always have to stay on teh move.

First of all, you just made a statement without arguementation It´s not about land transport vs air and what you prefer. It´s about teamwork on the ground on top of air insertion. E.G do you use a helo to move two blocks ? No you use land vehicles. Every scenario will have a lot more solutions if armed and weaponized ground transport is working with SL's instead of fighting their own war.

This can diversify tactics; air and Land can work in tandem to attack from two direction and modalities, at roughly the same time with coordination

Mobility is key of course to survival (as always) that is why in an Ideal scenario, the infantery squad working is working with the APC to protect it from RPG/LAT/HAT, when you load and insert.

If you think about it there is alot of opportunities for teamplay if you utilize land transportation to its fullest, it´s not a question of which map is rolling.

[Snyltebiter]

I agree that the APCs are often not used for their purpose, but there are some solutions to this. If you play on a server enforcing or encouraging Mumble you'll see the APCs working closely with the infantry. Making mechanized infantry squads also seem to make the APCs a mean of transportation and support rather than an "infantery l33t killing Tank kill machine".

I would love to see the score sheet removed too, at least on AAS. In my opinion it makes the game about killing and not surviving as it should – at least for some players. One of the things that can ruin a game of PR for me.

[Fess|3-5|]

YOU CAN'T FORCE TEAMWORK!

As long as APC's have guns and armor, they're going to be used as light tanks. This is how it has always been, and this is how it always will be. I'm the kind of guy who uses an APC like a light tank, but I'll give a squad a ride if I'm near them. Taking away my kill count isn't going to dissuade me any less from shooting the bad guys.

[Nebsif]

First of all, you just made a statement without arguementation It´s not about land transport vs air and what you prefer. It´s about teamwork on the ground on top of air insertion. E.G do you use a helo to move two blocks ? No you use land vehicles. Every scenario will have a lot more solutions if armed and weaponized ground transport is working with SL's instead of fighting their own war.

1st priority is transporting, covering, aiding infantry, 2nd is pew pewing on my own.
I Always stick close to squads and transport people IF they want me to, and from my personal experience, that doesnt happen quite often.

[Teek]

Perhaps if pasengers in IFV's didn't get killed when it gets hit by AT infantry might use it, because right now it is much much safer to walk as you can't get 6 people instakilled dead-dead like you can in a vehicle

[Dev1200]

Moar points for trans, less for kills.

APC's should a "Extra Point" Radius. If there are friendly infantry in the area of the APC, then they should get bonus points for providing fire support =)

@ Fess


Nobody is "Forcing" teamwork. They're giving you reason to do so. Running around getting 1337 kills is much less effective then helping infantry cap flags. When you go by yourself, you can be damned sure that there's a HAT team doing the exact same thing to you.

[lucky14]

It's better for the APC when it is with infantry, mainly because it offers protection on the flank of the vehicle that two people can't cover. If you had six people offering a perimeter, there's less than the vehicle will be hit at the rear/sides. Not to mention, if the squad is carrying a LAT, any other APC will be short work.

[alberto_di_gio]

Admins should push up APC squads for teamwork. Ofcourse kicking or banning for not helping can be harsh but if they are definitely out of their business they can be warned. If they are just pretending like tanks just keep telling. People will listen eventually.

[dtacs]

APC/BTR etc Armoured Personal Carrier.


In the context of PR I think it´s pretty safe to say that this is mainly a vehicle for transporting troops safely and backup infantery squads in coordinated maneuvers getting the added protection against RPG and LAT/HAT by having troops nearby looking out for their much beloved Iron taxi. Contrary to running around like a portable sniper machine trying to rack up kills.


SL's should have priority to call in land based transportation for their squads. The key here is teamplay and to work together instead of driving around by yourself. The problem here is that the apc squads are almost never focused on a transport role, Of course it can somtimes be useful to get som easy infantery and FOB kills with a 2 manned Apc, but I stress that transporting should be prioritized above all.

The developer tried to convey this by giving crazy points to the people actually ferrying troops around and giving fire support at the squads drop off and load in locale.

One solution is to play on the right server where people know how utilize the team aspect of APC's.

Another is to remove killcount for kills attained by gunning in these vehicles, to somewhat deter the selfish suckers that are drawned to the fact that it's realatively easy to get a high killcount by using them as an renegade (whereas teamplay is concerned ) Infantery hunting Tank.

Edit : /Thoughts ?

Another idea is to realize that this discussion has literally been done to death.

• https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... pport.html
• https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... quads.html

The end story is this mate, APC's such as the BTR, BMP, LAV etc. are always going to be more suitable for killing stuff than transporting infantry. I always encourage APC's go transport infantry but the simple fact remains that they are very very effective at being light tanks, this is undeniable.

As long as APC's have guns and armor, they're going to be used as light tanks. This is how it has always been, and this is how it always will be. I'm the kind of guy who uses an APC like a light tank, but I'll give a squad a ride if I'm near them. Taking away my kill count isn't going to dissuade me any less from shooting the bad guys.

Some may come up with the 'Well thats how it should be' card but that is a total load of ****. In PR if something works, EG HATing infantry or using an AA vehicle for anti infantry purposes, then players will do exactly that. To quote Mr. Celestial;

IFV. Bradleys/BMPs are some of the most versatile weapons in the game. To underestimate their application as light tanks is to ignore their ample armament.

Most APC's that we see in game were developed for the highly mechanized operations that would result during a war between NATO and the USSR. In PR however warfare is all over the place and so unorganized that there is no 'front' during the battle. However, I am an avid user of mechanized infantry since it IS so effective. But, arguing that an APC should not be used as a killing machine is just naive.

I would suggest a mod lock this topic before this stupid discussion goes nowhere, as it already is.

[Rudd]

the only alternative, at least for some teams would be to have one manned unarmed apc transports, but then have an extra tank/combat vehicle to balance.

that way you have pure safe transport, and pure combat vehicle to work together - as well as an extra passenger slot in the transport APC.

but not all teams feature such vehicles, e.g. the MEC have the BRDM support, but I doubt there is an unarmed stryker version or unarmed warrior etc?