Is Dying No More A Matter?

[doop-de-doo]

Only spawn at Main if you give up? I like it.

[AaronFraher]

Ever tried getting onto TG at around 8 GMT its impossible, also some people simply have bad luck, they get bombed a lot, commanders an idiot etc.
- 5 deaths is way to little anyway, it'd need to be something like 15-20

Just got some random screens from my x-fire. Count how many people have > 10 deaths, let alone 15-20.





With the death kick it would be easier to get onto a server which is usually populated, as people would be kicked as well as regular D/C's where people leave/crash.

IMO while luck may play a certain part in whether someone dies or not, the death kick would stop idiotic things happening, i.e. an entire squad crossing 1Km+ of open desert when theres an enemy AFV milling around. They would communicate with a friendly IFV crew to secure transport + fire support at the AO. The IFV crew would be more than happy to oblige, as the infantry can look out for AT kits/emplacements, and will be more vigilant than presently as if the IFV goes down their chances of getting killed increase, and vice versa.

There are many more examples I have to hand, but i'll just leave this one for the time being.

[Narco]

IMO while luck may play a certain part in whether someone dies or not, the death kick would stop idiotic things happening, i.e. an entire squad crossing 1Km+ of open desert when theres an enemy AFV milling around. They would communicate with a friendly IFV crew to secure transport + fire support at the AO. The IFV crew would be more than happy to oblige, as the infantry can look out for AT kits/emplacements, and will be more vigilant than presently as if the IFV goes down their chances of getting killed increase, and vice versa.

This sounds right, people would definately be more worried and careful if there was a death kick.

[alberto_di_gio]

I don't think, for what ever reason, kicking people is very appropriate action for PR. Kicking is something very annoying and humiliating. "Oh we don't want you looser" should not be the message of PR servers against people who is only fault is to die 5 or 10 times. Actually I think sum of some suggestion would really work out:

my suggestions:
- adding spawn time is the much better idea, 10-15 secs per death quickly pile up
- increase maximum spawn time back up to 5 mins
- if you give up being crit wounded (needing a revive) you cannot spawn on FOB's/Rallies.

PLUS-Reviving will not bring you to life instantly but make you able to use rp or FOBs. [I can't recall who suggested this one or if it was on this thread.]

PLUS as I said before if we can add something like "clear history" by surviving (not die at all) for some time that would be perfect. So people also know that even if they done wrong there is still a chance to turn the wind.

[Arnoldio]

With the death kick it would be easier to get onto a server which is usually populated, as people would be kicked as well as regular D/C's where people leave/crash.

IMO while luck may play a certain part in whether someone dies or not, the death kick would stop idiotic things happening, i.e. an entire squad crossing 1Km+ of open desert when theres an enemy AFV milling around. They would communicate with a friendly IFV crew to secure transport + fire support at the AO. The IFV crew would be more than happy to oblige, as the infantry can look out for AT kits/emplacements, and will be more vigilant than presently as if the IFV goes down their chances of getting killed increase, and vice versa.

There are many more examples I have to hand, but i'll just leave this one for the time being.

Yes, i've been saying just that. It solves just about every problem there is about headless gameplay.

Though a TK shouldnt count as a death even if you give up.

I don't think, for what ever reason, kicking people is very appropriate action for PR. Kicking is something very annoying and humiliating. "Oh we don't want you looser" should not be the message of PR servers against people who is only fault is to die 5 or 10 times. Actually I think sum of some suggestion would really work out:


PLUS-Reviving will not bring you to life instantly but make you able to use rp or FOBs. [I can't recall who suggested this one or if it was on this thread.]

a) It is humiliating if you keep dying. Just dont be stupid, voila, solved.

b) Who will revive a man wich wont bring him any profit as in continue fighting and such.

Its like a rich man walking past you in the street and giving you 100$ out of the pocket... It just aint going to happen.

[alberto_di_gio]

a) It is humiliating if you keep dying. Just dont be stupid, voila, solved.

dying would not be always your fault. I think as always main point of this topic is sliding. There are hundreds of way of dying. Some because you are stupid, some because you are not careful and some because you are unlucky or the other side is better than you. What I tried to say is people don't afraid from dying and playing in stress of war as its used to be to try to prevent the first two of this. And no one used to kick anybody because of dying

[Nick_Gunar]

I play medic almost all the time but the thing that really bugs me is a guy calling for a medic, you rush to revive him epipens in hand and he is giving up just when you are next to his body. Even if you write in the chat "don't give up" he will do it.
That's how we lose a game either guys get shot in a middle of a street and expect the medic to revive them (duh?) or medics stick to their squad and ignore soldiers 3 feet from them (reduh?). Worst, you are a medic, you get shot but nobody is willing to take your kit to revive you (weakest link).

2 problems in one; medic should revive everybody if the situation allows it of course, not just his own squadmembers and players shouldn't do the "death, give up, respawn" thing but should wait and see if a medic is coming.

PR is just the contrary of BF2, everything but selfishness. I won't be surprised if those drastic actions won't show up and to be honest, I won't disagree.

Try to play a medic for a whole week and you will see how painful is to do your job with the "quick give up button pusher" kinda people: longer respawn time isn't a bad idea after all, is it? ^^

[Dunstwolke]

I don't experience most of the issues talked about here.

I think it should be easier to see who released and who has not, for medics anyway.


But besides that people usually wait to get revived, unless the situation seems too dire/hopeless. I play on TG though most of the time, maybe it's different there.

I don't think there need to be harsher penalties, that would only take away from the fun of playing the game.

[Arnoldio]

I did play Il-2 on servers with death kick and its working there but come on guys there is totally different mechanics there! In PR it would be the worst idea ever

But i see your point that dying became less important anyway why not to just lower down the percentage of tickets for both sides which can be done by server admin afaik?
Less tickets mean every death is more important! Well maybe It is not that simple but still i think there is no need to punish players with server kicks.
Don't forget that deaths make your team lose more tickets which is a punishment for that team already.

Also btw I like the idea with losing ticket when you get wounded and another one after give up but i didn't think it over in details and there are always bad sides (rule abuse) side in every good idea unfortunately.

I will stress this now, because I said it so many times it isnt even funny anymore.

PEOPLE DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT TICKETS, THE ROUND WILL JUST END FASTER.

A round with 100000000 tickets will take 87682 hours, a round with 100 tickets will take 15 minutes.

That never was neither will be a solution, because DEVs themselves reduced the ticket count on maps to reduce the playtime of a map (Fools Road was the issue.) not to make people more careful.

You see, complaining about the death kick states that you're afraid of if when we're only talking about it let alone if it was in the game.

[iwillkillyouhun]

Is dying in PR becoming less and less important lately?

what do you mean by this ??? catually it's really important cuz of the tickets and a the spawn time

[BoarK]

- if you give up within 2 mins of being crit wounded (needing a revive) you cannot spawn on FOB's/Rallies.

After reading all of the suggestions I believe the one above by killonsight95 is the best solution. It will not only force people to wait for a medic but will surely make them think twice about getting gunned down in the middle of the street where the medic would have a hard time reaching. Carelessness will result in an automatic 2min wait.

[Dev1200]

Longer respawn, perhaps more accurate weapons. The warzone is a dangerous place.. doing stupid things gets you killed. You should be punished by noobishly rushing places with a large respawn. Maybe if you die many times under 7-8 minutes, a message on the screen should pop up telling you not to be a noob

[doop-de-doo]

I'm not for the idea of reducing overall map tickets. The rounds will only end faster.

I think we want to make "giving up" the great evil so it forces people to wait for medics. Consider these results of properly penalizing people who give up (through points, spawn countdown, tickets, kicks, etc.).
Medics will have greater value within the team.
People will not enjoy the long wait for the medic to arrive.
They will enjoy the "give up" penalty even less.
They will be scared of throwing themselves into dangerous positions.

Once again, being only able to spawn at main is an idea worth looking into IMO.

[Tim270]

PEOPLE DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT TICKETS, THE ROUND WILL JUST END FASTER.

Yeah, Stupid people, which is the minority of players.

Honestly if everyone thought like that then surely everyone would just crash choppers just to hurry up the next map? oh wait..

[Bringerof_D]

the problem isnt dieing too much, so "change tactics" isn't the right response. The problem now is no one is afraid of dieing too much. i remember too back when i first started PR i picked it up pretty quick to use tactics and teamwork to survive, but these days i just seem to be doing what everyone else does back when they first installed the mod, charge push the line till you're dead or the line has advanced.

i think spawn times need to be increased again, the lack of rallies has not really improved game play in the way the devs hoped i feel. Instead of slowing the flow of game play, it has simply taken combat closer to the FOBs. an additional solution may be to once again tweak the rally system.

[eMeRgEnCyLeMoN]

I kind of agree with D,

The lack of rallies AT FIRST made a big difference in the consequences of death, in that there was no easy, nearby spot to spawn if worst came to worst.

However, this went away when SL's changed tactics. Nowadays, most squads almost NEVER perform daring flanking maneuvers or sneaky infiltration, due to the inability to spawn if the squad is catastrophically destroyed (e. g.: come upon a .50 cal, or engaged by a tank/apc from long range).

This seems to be due mostly to the fact that it makes all of your well-planned and time-consuming bypassing just a waste of time. It's the worst feeling ever when your squad attempts to flank an enemy-occupied building, only to get devastated when a enemy APC decides to roll down your street.

In my ideal conception, I would have medics be able to enable spawn on RP or FB by casualties using epipen, but ALSO remove the timer on RP's, and ONLY enable spawning on RP's when 2 squadmates are near it.

This way, there's actually a reason why the remainder of a broken squad (2+) to retreat to the RP so that the casualties can respawn. This retreat would ALSO make it easier to locate and eliminate RP's, as to avoid the dreaded unfindable, uber-hidden RP. To me, this would more accurately represent the RP as a fall-back/staging position instead of a ghost-spawn.

Edit: If you want to avoid the problem of squads leaving 2 RP "guardians" to enable spawn, you could just require that the medic is one of the people who has to be at the RP to spawn. This way, he has to go get casualties, and then retreat to the RP.

[alberto_di_gio]

PEOPLE DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT TICKETS, THE ROUND WILL JUST END FASTER.

I'm with the Chiz on this one.

May be we can also change the reviving system. I'm not sure but right now after revived another death within 2 min. will be a *dead dead*. Lets increase this to 10 min. for example.