[0917] LAV3 Physics/Center of Gravity

[Psyrus]

[Description]
LAV3 APC flips extraordinarily easily on Archer's terrain

[Further Description]
Having used the various faction APCs in the past (especially the USMC Lav25), I feel quite comfortable knowing how the APCs 'should' handle, and what inclines and such they can navigate safely. Obviously the recent BDRM bug where it could flip over on flat ground was an issue, and from my recent rounds on Archer I am inclined to believe that the LAV3 may suffer a similar issue of top-heaviness.

It also reacts strangely when navigating inclines, in such a way that it seems to 'float' when starting or stopping (as in whilst braking on a downhill the back wheels may lift off the ground). I have found the BMP3 to exhibit very similar behaviour on the Kashan mountainous area.

Here is my video from just the last 2 rounds after I ascertained that something is awry with the LAV3 physics. I'll fraps my further LAV3ing in the future and add more footage of illogical flips.

[Video]

[Moonlight]

I fully agree with OP, driving LAV-3, especially on Archer is a nightmare. It's not as flippy as BRDM used to be but it feels like if it was full of helium. Not to mention it just seems to prefer to be upside down. Easy to flip, impossible o re-flip.

[Redamare]

yea i agree -_- .... alot of them need to be fixed IF possible i dont know what can realy be done about it ... i guess ... ( INCREASE GRAVITY ) that Could help.... Doing so could keep certian objects down... but then would effect jumping and falling ( i think the downward force gravity can be altered ... AKA Sand box mod lol i dont know though ... just a thought

[Rosk]

I agree as well, as this as happened to me a few times on my clan's training server. Best thing to do on archer is take the road slowly, carefully watching the edges to avoid flipping, as a result of this it makes getting ambushed all the more likely.

[***LeGeNDK1LLER***]

is it possible to fix apc from flipping when they are on top of a hill?

[Bringerof_D]

i see no problem with this XD... from news reports and actual vehicle crewman testimony. the LAV has a history of high rollover rates. i think this was one of the major complaints of the Crews a few years ago.

any who serious jokes aside, its probably more an issue with the terrain than it is the vehicle itself in game.

Your first rollover was normal, you hit an incline at speed parallel to it. be glad it didnt roll at 0:13 when you went down the hill, the real thing probably would have

2nd roll over, not so sure of that one.

a possible fix could be to add some weight to the lower section. i take it the current weight measurements are taken from the weight of the vehicle itself upon roll out from the factory. just add some weight to simulate a heavily loaded LAV with extra ammo, supplies etc.

[badmojo420]

You know what I've gotten from reading your post and watching that video? That the other factions LAVs need to be fixed. If you claim that a Stryker or LAV25 could go through that terrain, at the same speeds and not roll over, that should be fixed.

Do you have any real life data showing that LAV3s can drive over that steep an angle? I searched a little bit and found a bunch of news reports saying how easily the Canadian LAV3s are rolling over in Afghanistan. One said 30 degrees side slope, and it seems from the video that those slopes were over 30 degrees.

[DMull]

I'd say just stick to the roads. The hills are for dune buggies anyway, eh? *hint hint*

[Psyrus]

Do you have any real life data showing that LAV3s can drive over that steep an angle? I searched a little bit and found a bunch of news reports saying how easily the Canadian LAV3s are rolling over in Afghanistan. One said 30 degrees side slope, and it seems from the video that those slopes were over 30 degrees.

Nope, as I clearly said... it was in comparison to the other APCs in the game, especially with reference to the LAV25. If that's a real 'feature' of the LAV3, then wow.... good design?

Actually my qualm isn't so much with the tippy-ness of it, but moreso that it doesn't react to the physics of steering into the roll like trucks and cars do. Now imagine you're tipping to the right in a truck in PR or even a car in real life, most of the time (if you haven't passed the magic 45 degree half way point) it is simply a matter of turning the wheels to the right and the tip will abate. Now if you've passed the 45 degree mark, it is still sometimes possible to correct by turning the wheel and suddenly accelerating, which will again push the car down onto all wheels. This technique does not work on the LAV3, well beyond the smallest tips. I have saved it from a very gradual tip over from going over a rock... so I suppose this thread is just to alert the devs to the perceived issue and they can make their judgements from there.

[009783232]

I was the rpg gunner in both instances and was pleasantly surprised.

To the op, I am not sure how maneuverable the apcs should be on inlined surfaces, at the extreme I have seen them climb the mountains on archer to destroy absolutely everything from the relative safety of the fort.

[J.F.Leusch69]

thanks for reporting!

and following this template when reporting a bug.

[bromley]

i can confirm this, way just playing and as we were driving along a 20 degree angle, flat as posssible, we started to decline and were going on a 10 degree angle and as though the turret had a magnetic attraction to the road, we flip upside down.

[Psyrus]

J.F.Leusch69;1354958']thanks for reporting!

and following this template when reporting a bug.

I appreciate what you tried to do with putting that in each suggestion thread. I myself am quite a stickler for correct procedure, however due to the nature of the 'bug' that I was reporting [such that I wasn't aware if it was indeed a bug or merely a 'feature' that I disagreed with] I cannot see how the template would benefit a dev that was reading it.

[dunem666]

people should stop being noobs and learn to drive correctly.

Its a realistic center of gravity on this apc, turn OUT of your hills and not INTO them to avoid toppling.

[badmojo420]

At first I was on the side of the people saying to drive more carefully. But, now that i've had some time to use the APC for myself, it's clear that there are coding problems with this beast. To me, it feels like the APC weighs only about 30 lbs. Going down any type of hill gives you the feeling that the back end is lifting into the air, and then the opposite when climbing, you do a wheelie. This lightness adds to the problem of tipping over the APC, because you can't use the gas and brake to make it do what you would expect any object to do(according to physics) because as soon as you start giving it any gas, it does a wheelie and wobbles around like trying to balance a tea cup on the end of a stick. I don't think much adjustment is needed on the side to side stuff, just the weight and traction. But, thats just my guess.

Another question I have regarding this APC, why can't the turret flip it back over? In other vehicles, if you end up completely upside down, you can move the turret around and flip the vehicle back over. I know it works in humvees and some russian apcs.

[Nimble]

Perhaps we should make all wheeled vehicles drive a bit more like the LAV? As I understand it, wheeled APCs/jeeps/MRAPs are prone to flipping when turning too quickly at high speeds, or attempting to maneuver over difficult terrain. This might result in fewer cases of people driving over what should be impossible terrain to avoid IEDs or driving on roads all together. Just throwing it out there.

( Does this need sourcing? Anything on wheels with a high-center of gravity is going to be prone to flipping. )

Obviously this is not the place to suggest that though. Not only this, but I am unable to find a source that says it is common for LAVs to flip upside down while driving on perfectly flat ground, in a straight line. Which does seem to happen.

[Arnoldio]

I will be working on APC phsysics too, but yeah, vehicles will still need reexporting with more appropriate centers of mass.

[Sniperdog]

I will be working on APC phsysics too, but yeah, vehicles will still need reexporting with more appropriate centers of mass.

Or you could fix it with one line of code

ObjectTemplate.CenterOfMassOffset 0/-0.5/0

[Arnoldio]

Or you could fix it with one line of code

ObjectTemplate.CenterOfMassOffset 0/-0.5/0

Aaaaah, i shake a stick at you Rhino.

Thanks Sniper_dog, will make my life easier.

[Wh33lman]

THANK YOU

I'm embarrassed to admit that I have rolled this thing 3 times already. From my research, the Canadian LAV-III is somewhat of a cross between a USMC LAV-25 and a US Army Stryker. I have never had any problem driving either. Then when you hit a small bump (at any speed) the front end will lift into the air and you will lose the ability to steer. Basicly, it feels like your driving on the moon. On top of all that is the fact that it doesnt stop moving. I refuse to go anywhere near it anymore.