What are assault rifles zeroed in at?

[Sirex[SWE][MoW]]

I should clarify, rifle zeroing and how bullet flight physics was th discussion until you came in and compained about the erogornomic supiriority and bullpup design was not properly modeled after a top of the head recollection (not a stated fact) from a contributing developer Conflicted with you view that anything new must be good

No you are wrong. I came in and wounders why the Tavor was put togheter with short barrled weapons like the m4. Then you guys starded a flame war over m16. You guys brought up the m16 vs tavor discusion, i only wounder and wanted to discuss why Tavor were cllumped togheter with m4.

Also in my first post i gave my own knowledge about bullet flight path, but i guess you didn't read that part...

I dont really need to say much as everyone else already has, after all this offtopicness ive yet to see You (sirex) post one fact stating the TAR is more accurate than the m16 other than its new;

So i say again, why is the C.T.A.R more accurate than the m16a4? You made the claim, now back it up with some sources more than "its a new weapon".

I have posted several sources so i don't know why you are saing i did not. Also my argument was not about m16 vs Tavor, is was that Tavor at the very least is comparable to a weapon design that is over fifty years old and should have the same bulletdrop at 300 meters. Not my fault that you guys started going offtopic. I won't post any more sources since i don't care about your favorite weapons aka m16 vs Tavor, i want to discsuss the topic. you are being offtopic wiht this post btw.

The point is, it doesn't matter if it is a new gun or an old gun. The only thing that matters is the time of flight. Time of flight is dependent on two things;
1. distance to target
2. average velocity
From what I've read, the m16 has a slightly higher muzzle velocity than the TAR21. Since there is no drag in game, the average velocity is the same as the muzzle velocity. That's why the TAR21 has more drop than the m16, however, it wouldn't be so pronounce; You'd probably never even notice.

I feel this whole argument is coming from a general misunderstanding of how the bullet drop system works which has been made worse by an oversimplified explanation.
The weapons are not zeroed, the whole these weapons are zeroed for 300 while these ones are zeroed for 150 is just an oversimplification that means that some weapons just drop more due to their lower times of flight.
It's really just a game of Chinese whispers to be honest, it has circulated around so much everyone has a different idea of how it works. Simply because motherdear was a dev, you took his word as truth, even though he himself expressed he wasn't certain of it himself; this point I tried to put forward, however perhaps I should have put more emphasis on it.
I can tell you now with confidence, that the TAR21 wouldn't have as much drop as you'd think. It fires a relatively light round, and the difference between it and the m16's muzzle velocity isn't much different, which, if i'm not mistaken, perhaps has the highest muzzle velocities of the rifles depicted in game. Guns with heavier rounds such as the g3, typically would have lower velocities and thus more drop.(of course this all depends on how much energy the gun uses to accelerate the round, it would take a fair bit more energy to accelerate a 7.62x54R round to 900ms^-1 than it would for the 5.56 nato round)

At no point am I saying that the TAR21 is a bad gun or inferior to the m16 in any way. All I'm pointing out is that the notion that the TAR21 is being misrepresented in game is no more true than can be said for any other gun.

Btw, I'll have you know I did read the whole thread, how else would I quote what you were referring to if I hadn't. I'm quite sure this would be true for gazz as well.

At this point I shall emphasis that you shouldn't be taking anything I write as some form of personal attack. I'd much prefer it if we could settle such things in a civil manner, remember that misunderstandings can happen, I believe it would be better to just give each other the benefit of the doubt than resorting to smart remarks.

With that said, I wish to apologize for some things I posted, reading over them again, I can see that they may be taken as arrogant or otherwise. It wasn't my intention to start an argument or cause any negative feelings, I can only attribute this to bad habits I've unknowingly picked up from my time in school.

Exiled.

Thanks you for that very friendly and informative post! This is exactly what i wanted to discuss and know about. I am truly sorry if i have been hostile towards you but i got gangbanged directly by everyone who wanted to discuss how awesome the m16 instead of bulletdrop.

I would argue with you that the alignment of the guns barrel (since it is always pointed slightly upwards) vs the sights which are parallel to the weapon also affect where the "zero in" and bullet drop will occur, obviously i don't imply that this is taken into account in the game. Also i would argue that the actaull bulletdrop is also affected by the rounds manufactor, the manufactory/design of the internal barrel. and this combined means that you can't use physics equation to figure out the bullet path, since their are more variables to be taken into account.

And as you say, the effect net result would be minimal, and thus i don't think it justifies a 150meters difference in bulletdrop effect. Would you agree with that statement?

sounds like a textbook case of off topic to me...

maybe steer away from these if you want to continue the "discussion"

fades away back to Australia

No it is not offtopic since i wanted to discuss the Tavors bulletdrop in game, and the topic is what assault rifels are zeroed in at, thus indricertly bullet drop. I consider your post a slander against my person and worty to be reported since you are actively saing i a, offtopic when i am not. I didn't want to get soucres for m16 vs Tavor, the other guys wanted. I didnt want to talk about Tavor vs m16, the other guys wanted. I wanted to talk about topic, bulletdrop/zero in.

Also i can cite you guys talking bad about me and asking my to "get the fuck out" is that within the forum guidelines? But you like everybody else choses to only attack me. Thanks.

This is for everyone except Th3Exiled.
I really don't care about the accuracy difference between the Tavor and m16, i know Tavor is newer in design and more user friendly designed from the start. I don't care about the m16. I only wounder why the Tavor is considers in game much worse then weapons like m16,g3,type-95 and AK-74.

[gazzthompson]

[MoW];1326586']No you are wrong. I came in and wounders why the Tavor was put togheter with short barrled weapons like the m4.

Because it is a short barrel weapon like the m4 ? CTAR 21 (the one in game) has a 15 inch barrel, the m4 a 14.5.

Also i have yet to see you post a source with hard data (ballistic performance) Only opinions on the bullpup design which is heavily debatable and down to each individual user.

[Sirex[SWE][MoW]]

Because it is a short barrel weapon like the m4 ? CTAR 21 (the one in game) has a 15 inch barrel, the m4 a 14.5.

Also i have yet to see you post a source with hard data (ballistic performance) Only opinions on the bullpup design which is heavily debatable and down to each individual user.

Okay thank you, 2 pages of flaming and now you properly answer my question. The misunderstanding here is that we have the Commando version with a shorter barrel and that would be more equal to the m4. Why couldn't you have said that earlier? Becosue i thought it was over the standard rifleman T.A.R. 21 with 460millimeters barrel which would not have justified of a 150 meters change in bulletdrop.

I don't need a source with hard data since i don't care about the m16 vs Tavor debate that you have opened up. Actually my initial case was not limited to the m16 but why the Tavor was deemed worse the all other main assault rifles where the m16 was only an example.There is no debate, bullpup provides a shorter weapon and retains barrel lenght that is a fact.

[gazzthompson]

[MoW];1326594']There is no debate, bullpup provides a shorter weapon and retains barrel lenght that is a fact.

Yes, should the weapon designers choose to have a "normal" length barrel.

[motherdear]

sirex may i remember you that they have not been the only ones flaming. you haven't exactly been acting kindly yourself. if you begin arguing about an 18.5 inch barrel without telling anybody, when everyone else is talking about the ingame tavor which is a commando version and therefore 15 inch.
you can not compare the two when people are not in agreement of which rifle they are talking about.

now in regards to the age discussion it does not have to do anything with how well the weapon shots, that depends on the shooter pretty much.
the tavor is a superiour design in that it is designed for urban combat, the m16 is not designed for this specifically. they are different weapon designs and just because it is newer it does not mean that it is better.

the m416 is based on the same weapon platform as the m16, but it is also rated as one of the best weapons today. ergonomics does not necesarily make the weapon a better design, but it does give the tavor a benefit in urban combat although it would be worse suited for long range combat.

and i would prefer that nobody begins this flame/yell war again. there is no need and sirex watch what you write and do not try and act smart like here

Okay thank you, 2 pages of flaming and now you properly answer my question.

stop trying to be a smart *** and instead source your data properly and stop talking about comparative weapons that you have newer fired. talk with zzez if you want this discussion.

[ludwag]

Is there a big table that says all the guns in PRs drop range, damage, deviation, etc, etc etc? All I know about the guns in this game is from the feeling. I can't read all these posts in this thread. It is just too much

[Teek]

So, um, is the TAR actually more inaccurate in the game?

It has the exact same deviation model as the M4, M16, SA-80, and others

source: Jaymz in mutliple threads about how the TAR is seemingly more accurate

[motherdear]

So, um, is the TAR actually more inaccurate in the game?

no, but it might have different bullet drop properties, than say an m16, coders are better at answering this question, but the accuracy should be the same for 5.56 weapons. but different depending on either scope option or bullpup or not, not sure which is the deciding factor.

[danger01]

Is there anywhere on your site that contains info on trajectories for the weapons used here in PR ?
i ask because i have seen many peoples posts re this subject and would like to add my 2 cents worth.
using the m16A2 rilel for example and according to the USMC Rifle marksmanship manual;-
"If the rifle is properly zeroed for 300 yards/meters, the trajectory (path of the bullet) will rise approximately 4.5 inches (11 centimeters) above the line of sight at a distance of approximately 175 yards (160 meters).
At other distances, the strike of the bullet will be less than 4.5 inches above the point of aim. Only at 36 yards/30 meters and 300 yards/meters does the point of impact coincide with the point of
aim. If only a portion of the target is visible (e.g., the head of an enemy soldier), the trajectory of the bullet may have to be taken into consideration when firing at a distance less than 300 yards/meters. If a Marine does not consider trajectory, he may shoot over the top of the target if the target is small and at a distance less than 300 yards/meters."

[gazzthompson]

Bullets in game dont have realistic ballistics.

[danger01]

thanks for the quick reply

[Bringerof_D]

only thing you have to account for is drop beyond 300 meters as far as i know. it's mostly guess work

[AnimalMother.]

Last i heard all assault rifles and battlerifle are zeroed to 300m, ingame terms, if its between you and 300m deviation allowing the shot will land where you'd expect it (stressing deviation allowing)

marksman rifles and snipers same thing but with 600m


and from an old thread chuc mentions that the only difference between the M4 and M16A4 is draw time, so assuming that to be the only difference they are both zeroed at 300m, as i would also guess is the CTAR, L85, QBZ etc etc



what i really want to know is if the (dunno what to call them) the bullet drop indicators on the ACOG sight actually work?