re-ordering sniper's equipment

[dtacs]

Why not create a spotter kit, with grappling hook, and an extra patch, radio, and a weapon that has an optical sight? Which is essentially an officer's kit.

The spotter can only be requested by the squad leader, and the sniper can only be requested if SL has the spotter kit. Or would this be impossible?

Because if we did that, we could limit it to 1 sniper and 1 spotter per team, rather than 2 snipers.

I disagree with the radio being in the sniper's inventory, the sniper isn't the one determining distance and extra, I believe that's the spotter's role is to evaluate the situation and report back?

Just a suggestion, but I think removing 1 sniper kit, and maybe adding a spotter kit could help.

The spotter kit has been suggested more times than I can count, and is not going to happen.

Its going to take more people of what already is a platoon sized game, which is the last thing needed.

[0blivi0us]

The spotter kit has been suggested more times than I can count, and is not going to happen.

Its going to take more people of what already is a platoon sized game, which is the last thing needed.

Not if you do exactly what he suggests. having one sniper kit, and only able to get a sniper kit with a spotter in the squad. It would be perfect.

[Heskey]

Could we get an R-DEV to pass comment now on whether or not this is a good/bad suggestion and likelyhood of implimentation?

[Ninja2dan]

Could we get an R-DEV to pass comment now on whether or not this is a good/bad suggestion and likelyhood of implimentation?

I have already lost the point of the entire discussion. It seems like the focus of the topic keeps shifting, and has turned into a lump of gibberish.

If someone can actually point out, clearly and legibly, what is being suggested here, then I'm sure a proper response can be made.

[Heskey]

If someone can actually point out, clearly and legibly, what is being suggested here, then I'm sure a proper response can be made.

Johnny, and a number of supporters, are suggest 2 things:

1.) Add the Radio to the Sniper kit, to allow snipers to effectively spot targets and mark them on the map instead of relying on shouting at people via <TEAM> chat.

2.) Make the Radio the primary weapon of the Sniper kit (Key 3), so that it's the first thing a new sniper sees on receiving the kit which should hopefully give them some indication that spotting/intel gathering is their primary function, and sniping high value targets is their secondary function (moving the sniper rifle to another key stoke; 4 or 7 etc). Much like how HAT users don't get given the HAT as key 3 etc.

[Ninja2dan]

I would then have to say I personally support providing the sniper with a radio for the purpose of target spotting, but only under certain "conditions".

Personally, especially with artillery assets being added with more types inbound and future similar assets being planned, I would like to eventually see a designated FO/FAC kit introduced which would occupy that role instead. Such a kit would serve perfectly as a spotter within a sniper team, or could act individually strictly as an FO/FAC.

What I do not want to see is the sniper kit obtaining additional equipment that will further encourage snipers to operate solo. So until a designated FO/FAC kit is introduced, I wouldn't object to the sniper having a radio as long as the rest of the team feels there is minimal risk of exploitation or balancing/gameplay issues.


As for the radio or similar object being moved to the primary weapon slot, I think I made my opinion of that clear earlier in this topic. Having served in such a role myself, I am fully aware of how such soldiers operate on the battlefield. Personal defense always comes first, therefore every soldier carries his personal weapon into battle and not his secondary equipment.

If a player chooses the Sniper kit, they should already know what their role is and how to perform that role. They don't need kit item order to dictate how they perform their duties, and rearranging weapon slots will have zero effect on how people use the kit. All it will do is cause a temporary delay when they obtain that kit to select their rifle before moving out.


A good example: Do you think that spawning in players with their weapons on "SAFE" prevented people from actually running around with their weapons on "AUTO"? Hell no, all that did was cause players to instinctively remember to switch their selector over to "AUTO" when they spawned, nothing more. We're talking about a second or less delay before moving out, with no actual change to their attitudes or how they played the game.


The problem with the sniper kit in PR and other games is not the kit itself, but the players. And there is only so much we can do with altering the kit in order to try and enforce proper use of the kit, before such alterations cause the kit itself to no longer represent what it was intended to.

Players are mostly not military trained, and as such are ignorant to how a real sniper is intended to operate on the battlefield. For this reason, and this applies to other kits/weapon systems as well, there will always be problems with how kits are used in the game.

Trust me, I would love to see the Sniper in PR performing their duties in a realistic manner. But when you combine game engine limitations with the improper kit use by players, as long as the kit is in game there will be issues. And I'm not about to vote for kit removal just because people don't know how to use it. They need to either learn, or die trying.



As a note, this is my own personal opinion and not the "official" opinion of the rest of the team.

[Heskey]

It's a good and more than valid opinion none-the-less. Thanks for weighing in.

I agree that anything to further the ability for a Sniper to operate solo is a bad idea. Would be nice to see full 'Recon' squads with an Officer leading, a medic, a specialist, and a sniper...

Might start one myself; can combine my wish to become a SL, with my sneaky "hold your fire" manouvers, love of sniping & inability to do so (let someone else do it whilst I spot and SL).

[blues&royalsdylan]

The spotter kit has been suggested more times than I can count, and is not going to happen.

Its going to take more people of what already is a platoon sized game, which is the last thing needed.

Not at all, if you make it 1 sniper per platoon, then that way you're not decreasing the number of people on the actual front-line, if anything you're adding more.

Make it 1 sniper and 1 spotter per team. Make it so the sniper kit can only be requested if there's a Spotter in the squad. Make it only that a Squad leader can take the spotter kit, and add a grappling hook to the spotter kit.

This way, you've got yourself the scoped rifle, the radio, a grappling hook, 2 extra soldiers on the front line or logistical services.

You're also relying on the spotter to mark targets and report them to the rest of the team.

[Heskey]

I quite like that suggestion, blues!

[dtacs]

Not at all, if you make it 1 sniper per platoon, then that way you're not decreasing the number of people on the actual front-line, if anything you're adding more.

Yes you are decreasing it, since there isn't a platoon in any army which is going to be tanks, APC's, jets, helicopters and other assets. Platoons are 26-55 people, and since PR is a limited game the platoon has to field a variety of rolls.

You are decreasing people on the front line since sniper teams don't operate there.

What would you rather have, a spotter in the hills or a guy you can trust at your six with a shotgun?

Make it 1 sniper and 1 spotter per team. Make it so the sniper kit can only be requested if there's a Spotter in the squad. Make it only that a Squad leader can take the spotter kit, and add a grappling hook to the spotter kit.

This way, you've got yourself the scoped rifle, the radio, a grappling hook, 2 extra soldiers on the front line or logistical services.

You're also relying on the spotter to mark targets and report them to the rest of the team.

Whats going to encourage the spotting of enemies on the battlefield? Time and time again, on almost every server I've played on, snipers do not relay intelligence to the team, or are in a smart position. Players are hardcoded, adding a spotter kit with a grapple, radio, and GLTD (would make sense to take it away) would just encourage idiots to run around thinking they are spec ops douchebags and probably not even operating with a sniper.

I for one, know know a ton of people would use it instead of spotting, to go behind enemy lines and do fun shit thinking they are delta.

[lucidrians]

The spotter kit has been suggested more times than I can count, and is not going to happen.

Its going to take more people of what already is a platoon sized game, which is the last thing needed.

What, no it won't, instead of using the officer kit the spotter in the sniper squad will use the spotter kit, it won't take anyone else out of theg ame. But you're right, it's not going to happen.

[dtacs]

Currently:
Max of 2 snipers per team, max of 32 people per team => max of 30 people on the front lines.
With blue's suggestion:
Max of 1 sniper and 1 spotter per team, max of 32 people per team => max of 30 people on the front lines.

Ah I thought he meant two spotters, in that case it is feesable, still isn't going to stop the spec ops bs.

Perhaps the only sensible thing to do is to remove the sniper kit entirely?

I believe so. It currently provides no true benefit to the team, since a SAW can do the same job.