M1A1 Tank a few issues

[Davestrike]

Devs,

First off, I really like the mod you all put together! Loads of fun!

There are a few issues with how the M1 is setup in the game. I am not sure if any of the issues can be addressed.
Would be nice if they could be.

Having been a 19K M1 Tank crewman in Desert Storm, I do know a few things about the tank.

1. Main gun sights - The main guns sights are actually located on top of the tank and to the right of the main gun. The gunner does not see the main gun barrel when he is looking in the sights, he does see the targeting reticle though. In game, the main gun sight is on the left of the main barrel and you can see the barrel.

2. Commander's MG - the commander uses a .50 cal. MG, correctly done in the game. Not done correctly is the sighting. The commander cannot see through the sights of the mg while he is standing up and exposing his upper torso. Yes he can control the mg by reaching inside the tank and using the joystick. The ammo bin stores 100 rnds. of ammo. There is an additional 900 rnds. stored on the tank for the .50 cal.

Below is a picture of the gunner's station and part of the commander's station. Please note the sights.



Please note the sight located on the top of the picture and the joystick next to it, those are the commander's controls for the .50 cal. The commander must be inside the tank to use the sights. Pretty much the only way a commander would use them!

Note the sight about the middle of the picture, has a black head rest above it. This is the gunner's main sight. Below and to the lleft of the sight is the secondary main gun sight. This looks right down the right side of the main gun, gunner cannot see the barrel.

Please note in the picture another joystick that is located to the very right side of the picture. This is the commander's over-ride joystick to the main gun. It allows him to move the main gun and turrent in a direction he needs it so the gunner can aim in on enemies.

3. M240 Coxial mounted gunner's MG - This is located on the right side of the main gun. It has a hopper for storing 12,400 rnds. Not the 100 rnds. as it is in the game. Look at the picture above, you can see the rear of the mg to the left of the secondary sight.

4. Loader's M240 MG - It has a 100 rnd. ammo bin with another 400 rnds. stored on the tank. The M1, M1A1, and M1A1 Heavy did not have a gun shield for the loader's mg.

Not sure if any of this can be modified to fit the reality of the tank.

Thank you for reading this.

Davestrike

[Rudd]

welcome to the forums and thank you for your service, servicemen are welcome here

thanks for the information, the loaders m240 was removed from teh model afaik as there is only 64 people ingame it was felt to be a misappropriation of resources

2. Commander's MG - the commander uses a .50 cal. MG, correctly done in the game. Not done correctly is the sighting. The commander cannot see through the sights of the mg while he is standing up and exposing his upper torso. Yes he can control the mg by reaching inside the tank and using the joystick. The ammo bin stores 100 rnds. of ammo. There is an additional 900 rnds. stored on the tank for the .50 cal.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean, ingame atm the commander is a combined driver/commander position to compensate for the 64 player limit, he can only operate the 50cal MG if he moves to teh 50cal position, at which point his body is sticking out and can use the sights or he can crouch and not see anything, the 50cal ingame is the normal m2 rather than a CROWs system so I don't understand how a joystick comes in to it? I'm not a serviceman so forgive me civilianism

[anglomanii]

i think he is talking about the periscope sighting system used to operate the commanders 50cal, if it's the same on the aussie m1a1-sa it is controlled from under armor, the only reason a commander unbuttons his position is to observe and not to operate the weapon.

essentially (from my limited experiance) it is a power operated gun but not a RWS, which are being fitted now.
@davestrike, i would love to have a chat about this, PM me if you want.

cheers ANGLO.

[havoc1482]

The issue I have with the Tank ingame is that the only person that can view long distances in 360 degrees is the gunner and that places a handicap on the crew.

[Rudd]

havok, press F as the driver and you get the commander view

[havoc1482]

havok, press F as the driver and you get the commander view

Damn I feel stupid now. I was on a PR server asking of there was a way to do that and everyone said idk.

[Davestrike]

[R-CON]Rudd,

I understand the need to have the one person M1 model setup so the driver and commander/gunner are one position. Makes sense for control of the resources.

anglomanii has the right of it. The Commander controls the M2 .50 cal. from within the tank by using the periscope that is also a sight slaved to the mount of the .50 cal. He moves the mount around up/down/left/right by use of a joystick control. When you look at the picture, notice the black joystick that has a black cord dangling off it? That is the control for the .50 cal.

By setting up the .50 cal. this way, the M1 loses the copula miniturrent that was used on the later M60 tank versions. That used to house the commander's MG. It is much simpler to maintain and care for than what was on the M60 tanks.

I can understand about removing the M240 for the loader position. Makes sence when you can only have a max of 64 players.

As to the way the .50 cal is handled now, maybe the view position could be changed so if the operator changes to the commander's position only, he is still inside the tank and can use the sights from that position without exposing himself to enemy fire.

He can click back to the driver/commander/gunner position to operate the main gun and move the tank.

As for the CROWs system. I know that is on HMMVees now. It is not what was used on the M1. Maybe the later versions of the M1A2 and newer. I served on the M1A1 Heavy. CROWs uses a video feed doesn't it? Would not be a bad idea on an M1.

The M1 was a marvel of design for armor. Look at the picture again, notice a yoke arrangment towards the bottom of the picture, just below the rear of the main gun. That is the gunner's control yoke for the turrent direction and main gun elevation controls.

The driver has a simular yoke to drive the tank with. With the transmition controls on the center of the yoke. By the way, the M1 has Neutral, reverse, Drive 1 and Drive 2 and is completely automatic! There is a gas pedal and brake at the driver
s feet.

I love playing the Kashan Desert map, for the simple reason I get to control an M1! Usually the only thing that kills me is the dang Frogfoot plane! That dang thing's bombs! Or a friendly fire hit from a pilot that cannot tell the difference from an M1 and T90!

Davestrike

[anglomanii]

thanks dave, i only know about the aussie M1a1-AIM-SA, bassiclly (if i have this right) the RWS .50 QCB has replaced the commanders M2 and the loader has inherited the old commanders system for the MAG58. even though i understand why the devs have limited the places on the M1 i would personally think having it set up with 4 positions would be be best now that most of the deployed tanks have been upgraded to the latest standard and even though it does limit boots on the ground it might improve combat effectivenes in asymetric conflicts.

[Excavus]

I think the devs should just add 4 positions anyways. All of them do not HAVE to be manned at the same time, just be there incase it is ever needed. I love to have a machine gunner in my tank at all times when I'm a tank commander, they can really save your *** in insurgency. With this extra seat, I can turn off the engine without even leaving the tank.

[Rudd]

I think the devs should just add 4 positions anyways. All of them do not HAVE to be manned at the same time, just be there incase it is ever needed. I love to have a machine gunner in my tank at all times when I'm a tank commander, they can really save your *** in insurgency. With this extra seat, I can turn off the engine without even leaving the tank.

the thing is though mate, that the loader is meant to use the m240

[Excavus]

A big no! There would be no infantry then. Everyone would be a tank whore.

Did you even read what I said? I said it did not have to be manned. It's an extra seat for whoever wants it. I always have 3 guys in my tank, so the .50 position is taken up. With this extra M240 seat, I can sit in it to turn the engine off without ever leaving my tank.

[Eddie Baker]

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean, ingame atm the commander is a combined driver/commander position to compensate for the 64 player limit, he can only operate the 50cal MG if he moves to teh 50cal position, at which point his body is sticking out and can use the sights or he can crouch and not see anything, the 50cal ingame is the normal m2 rather than a CROWs system so I don't understand how a joystick comes in to it? I'm not a serviceman so forgive me civilianism

On the M1 and M1A1 the commander has the ability to lay and fire the M2 in his cupola from under armor with the hatch fully "buttoned-up." There is a 3x periscope sight on the commander's cupola and the cupola itself is power traversed. Because of the additional two rounds of ammunition, the CITV and other black boxes/C4ISR gear stuffed in that is no longer possible/practical on the M1A2, which is why they are being retrofit with CROWS.

[anglomanii]

@eddie, how is the loaders weapon employed on the latest models?

i was lead to believe its a powered unit too.

[Darknecron]

ingame atm the commander is a combined driver/commander position to compensate for the 64 player limit,

You guys need to break that 64 player limit lol. That would be epic...or, just more epic than it is now.

[Nosferatu]

In case with 4 positions, loader have to be limited on using his M240 while reloading main gun

[killonsight95]

You guys need to break that 64 player limit lol. That would be epic...or, just more epic than it is now.

hardcoded, for now that is :]

[LoliBattleMachine]

I think that the best solution while still having 3 positions is to have one position as a driver/commander. The driver/commander will have the same position as he does now, starting in a driver position and hitting F to view the commander periscope but instead of just a periscope, he is also aiming an M2 HMG. The gunner position will remain the same, and the third position will be a top turret gunner wielding an M240 acting as the loader.