New players and steep learning curve

[Arnoldio]

I've been thinking just few minutes ago.

What exactly does a new player benefit from when you suggest him to go in a normal squad and listen to the SL. Well, in theory, he is surrounded with a great people who know how to play the game very good.

But imagine yourself playing footbal (assuming you are new to it or just a bad player), in Real Madrid, surrounded with players of much greater quality and skill as you. How would you look and them and how would they look at you.

You wouldnt understand their way of play, couldnt catch up with quick reactions etc. Either they would say that you suck or you would let them make all the work because you wont be as good as them anyway.

On the other hand, if you have a company of equal members, who know as much as you, you are actually aiming to be better as an individual, wich results in better team, or squad if we are talking PR.

People who start the game and want to learn it, expect everybody to be on the same level, so they can have fun and understand eachother, but that isnt so as we allready know.

I believe if would be highy beneficial if a group of new players join a skilled squadleader and get the things that are self explanatory to us and they wouldnt need to catch up to the rank of a skilled player as they would be skilled in eachothers eyes and thats what matters in PR.

After they get the right feeling of the game they can easily include themselves into squads with people who spent way more time on PR than they did.

Im not saying that sending a new player into a normal squad doesnt help, it does but also turns people away because they think they have no chance. I dont fly in PR because i've seen so many guys really good at it and i think i would just make them look bad or they would get angry at me because i could crash or do something stupid. But if i had a squadmate that i know he isnt proffesional, id be happy to have som fun with him.

And thats how you get quality players.

I dont know how to efficiently make this happen or get some training events on with people actually joining, but it here is a little suggestion.

First you have to register on the forums in order to dowload PR, then you have to verify you registered with typing out the email used on the forums. Prior clicking Finish, it would take you to the forums to the Training events forums or a New Player area where they can chat with eachother and arrange some games, if nobody is willing to train them. That forum would be only visible for 4 months after the registration of the player.

Just thinking loud.

[boilerrat]

I like PR because of the difficulty to learn how to play.

It keeps away people who are...can't think of a better word..... douches. Because the game isn't instantly gratifying.

[Arnoldio]

I like PR because of the difficulty to learn how to play.

It keeps away people who are...can't think of a better word..... douches. Because the game isn't instantly gratifying.

You say that because you can play the game easily.

I am talking about the quality of the players and faster and progressive learn-through good play way, the ones who are douches as you say, will go away anyway.

[commando5550]

Everyone has got the same steep learning curve. Like me, I didn't know anything about the game at first (although I did read the manual) and first in 0.6 I was really hated in squads because I didn't know much of the game (even though I was highly motivated because I loved the idea of more realistic BF2), but I just kept reading the manual, testing stuff on locals and most importantly kept playing on squads using VOIP and now it's easy.

I like how this game's public playerbase consist of players that have motivation to do teamwork.

[CallousDisregard]

I don't think he is talking about making the game any easier to play, just a new way to help new players learn it.
I found this surfing and it seems to be right on target if not on topic.

Every adult I know--or at least the ones who are depressed--continually suffers from something like sticker shock (that is, when you go shopping for something for the first time and are shocked to find it costs way, way more than you thought). Only it's with effort. It's Effort Shock.
~-~
We have a vague idea in our head of the "price" of certain accomplishments, how difficult it should be to get a degree, or succeed at a job, or stay in shape, or raise a kid, or build a house. And that vague idea is almost always catastrophically wrong.

Accomplishing worthwhile things isn't just a little harder than people think; it's 10 or 20 times harder. Like losing weight. You make yourself miserable for six months and find yourself down a whopping four pounds. Let yourself go at a single all-you-can-eat buffet and you've gained it all back.

How 'The Karate Kid' Ruined The Modern World | Cracked.com

[Sinn_Ah_Taggh]

I kinda see were you are coming from ChizNizzle.
Last weekend i was having some fun together with a clan mate doing some public loling on Muttrah when a new player joined my squad.

He had either read the manual prior to entering the game or he had played some before because he did what so many newcomers tend to do: request the sniper kit.
I promptly told him that we as an infantry squad was not going to need that kit at the moment and told him to pick up his original rifleman kit.

That was the point where he told me that he was new to PR and that he did have a mic but dint want to use it.
Usually when i squadlead i prefer all my members have a mic since that makes coms much easier and makes the game more fluent,but i told him he could stick with us and we could show him the ropes.

Now,as you pointed out ChizNizzle, he started very quickly to fall behind and couldnt keep up with the squad as we were advancing and moving the front line forward.
We tried many times to wait for him but eventually the concentration of enemies building up around us made it impossible for us to stay at one place for too long.

This is were i think we started to loose im ( interest wise ). He stopped writing hes observations and didnt seem to want to even travel in the same general direction as us.

I think was simply because the pace was too high for him,he simply couldnt keep up with the amount of information that was passing trough VOIP and the squad moving.

This is trend that i have seen way to many times.
There at too many people out there that dont take their time to explain and help new players simply because they are too busy minding their own businesses!

I wish there could be a way to help new players ease in to the game,but i think the sad truth us that they depend on mature and patient players to to the teaching,which are too far apart.
Im not sure if a system like the one you are showing here would work too good.
I think that the proses it self would discourage many players since it would require a lot of effort for just getting started.

[mosinmatt]

I have had a few beginners in my squad I was leading. Just gotta work with them slowly. Give them a simple rifleman's kit and all that.

[Arnoldio]

Everyone has got the same steep learning curve. Like me, I didn't know anything about the game at first (although I did read the manual) and first in 0.6 I was really hated in squads because I didn't know much of the game (even though I was highly motivated because I loved the idea of more realistic BF2), but I just kept reading the manual, testing stuff on locals and most importantly kept playing on squads using VOIP and now it's easy.

I actually didnt have a speet learning curve. I dodnt really read the manual back in 0.5 if there was any actually. I didnt even ask anybody where to request the kits. I just played the game for so long until i discovered everything. Back then I didnt use a lot of microphone, and the squads were pretty much silent too.

But now im here where i am.

You see, you were hated in squads because you were not up to standards, wouldnt it be easier just to have equal players who cannot say you suck in the squad. You would learn together and what do you know, even become a better squad than most.

[Smegburt_funkledink]

PR is more satisfying than any other game I've played when it comes to teamwork. You get lots out of the game for playing it well. The steep learning curve is worth it when things finally start going your way.

I always enjoy playing new maps I've not been on before 'cause it kinda reminds me of being a new player, having to learn the ropes.

It's a challenge but a satisfyingly fun one.

[Truism]

As long as there's lots of talk in those good squads the new player will rapidly gain all the knowledge he needs, then he just needs to mesh together the framework that creates to become a good player. There's enormous value in new players joining those Gruntosaurus squads and trekking around the map with five other people packing standard squad weapons, with the noob carrying nothing more complicated than an Optics Rifleman kit with the complex task of shooting at things in predefined arcs on command and using a shovel to make firebases.

Baby steps are a beautiful thing. Some day that guy will be planning a three squad push onto west city with the third squad airmobile using support from two LAV-25s and overwatch from a sniper pair and a Cobra. It's the basic skills he picked up walking around the map with those five guys who told him what works and what doesn't in PR that will allow him to do that.

[Wh33lman]

I actually trained 2 guys on 2 seperate occasions to crew vehicals recently. i could tell just by the way that both were playing that they were new. when i asked one of them, he didnt respond. another guy in the squad told him that if we didnt know he needed help, we couldnt help him. so this leads me to believe that either:

A: They asked for help before and got kicked out of the squad or insulted
or
B: they've heard these horror stories that the experenced players dont like the newbies.

the short of it is we need to change our behavior in order to help the new guys. just because you read a cars owners manual doesnt mean you know how to drive.

[Rudd]

this is the area where the 'those PR guys are elitist ********' attitude comes from tbh. Kicking people from squads for being new etc is nasty. Whenever I get a new guy in teh squad I just tell him to grab a rifleman and do what I do, go where I go, explain how stuff works when it comes up, its quite a good teaching experience for squad leaders as it requires your coms to be clear and concise so that less initiated can understand.

I only ever kick from squads when they disobey, I've had so many arguements in servers over this

its just part of the learning experience for newer players imo

"Rudd cries when people take sniper kits in his squad" <- direct quote
"wanna do what you want, press leave squad and create squad, wanna be in my squad? do what your told"

be friendly, be understanding, but a certain amount of disciplining is also required to build great PR players

[yakuz]

I really think ideas such as forcing people to sign up or read the manual will kill any incoming player's intrest. I've played a lot of mods for lots of different games and I would instantly avoid a mod that required such a thing.

Currently new members who have a mic and understand the need to learn from more experienced players are very useful to a squad (often more so than some leet player who dosn't need teamwork cos hes played since 0.[somereallyoldversionofPR])

[Infantry4Ever]

Well in my eyes there is no "pro" level in PR. Everyone is learning new tactics and exploring diffrent ways to complete the objective. Dont get me wrong ive seen people that take it way too seriously. an example being was when i was a pilot transporting a squad i lagged for a split second(God forbid :O ) and i crashed. Just then the whole team started flaming. Now im not a man of words but please. Enjoy the game for the good of everyone.

[Snazz]

People who start the game and want to learn it, expect everybody to be on the same level

Newbies are never at the same level as experienced players, which should be quite obvious in PR due to the steep learning curve.

sending a new player into a normal squad turns people away because they think they have no chance.

If so it'd probably be attributed to individual willpower. In which case they typically wouldn't bother trying to get better at any game/mod.

I dont fly in PR because i've seen so many guys really good at it and i think i would just make them look bad or they would get angry at me because i could crash or do something stupid.

That's fair enough, I chose not to fly primarily because of the inevitable drama that I can't be bothered dealing with. There's always someone else that will fly anyway.

But if i had a squadmate that i know he isnt proffesional, id be happy to have som fun with him.

I know what you mean there, although to me it's not just about who's "pro" and who's new. What's more important is the player's attitude, if they're relaxed and friendly it builds morale.

There's little incentive in playing a game that heavily relies on teamwork when others on your team are being jerks. Something I think many fail to consider.

And thats how you get quality players.

As far as keeping new players interested in the mod enough to get better, yes. But there's other factors involved.

First you have to register on the forums in order to dowload PR, then you have to verify you registered with typing out the email used on the forums. Prior clicking Finish, it would take you to the forums to the Training events forums or a New Player area where they can chat with eachother and arrange some games, if nobody is willing to train them. That forum would be only visible for 4 months after the registration of the player.

I don't think players should be forced through such a system. It'd be better to provide more optional assistance to new players and promote fairer treatment by experienced players. Success would vary because player attitudes and behavior are somewhat 'hardcoded.'

Improving and returning the training mode would be another good move IMO.

A percentage of new players will always be turned off from PR, whether it's the game mechanics themselves or treatment from other players. It's impressive actually how strong the community is with such inaccessibility.

[havoc1482]

I dont fly in PR because i've seen so many guys really good at it and i think i would just make them look bad or they would get angry at me because i could crash or do something stupid.

I've just learned to deal with that. I've had people tell me i suck and ill be like "Ok, id like to see you do any better? Everyone makes mistakes" I mean ive been flying choppers long enough in PR to know how they handle but sometimes.... shit happens.

[BigNate]

I'm still newer to PR than most players, and honestly most of what I've read here is bollocks. I'm good at shooters, and no stranger to vanilla/SF, granted. I'm not incompetent, just a little green.

For most of what I've read in this thread, people are really only considering noobs who can't communicate well. Frankly, I've been in squads where my noobness shows. I get asked to do something I didn't know was possible, or I can't keep up, or I wander into the enemy they've called out and I get shot down. I'm fully capable of saying "wait guys, I'm still back here" or "aww hell my bad, walked into them" over VOIP. I have no problem saying "do you need me to go medic" or "how do I do that" either. (Noobtip: nobody hates their medic. Learn to play medic if you suck.) I have yet to get kicked from a squad--but not for a lack of sucking--and I've even led a couple infantry squads out of necessity.

The 'noobs' you guys are discussing, they're not (necessarily) noobs. They're communicationally-impaired, or less often, incompetent. Either they're socially awkward and afraid to speak, or non-English-speaking, or young kids, or computer illiterate, or who knows what else. Sometimes just lacking a mic--the BF2 engine has AWFUL in-game chat.


My point is that it's important to distinguish three distinct qualities that some players have in varying combinations: communication impairments, inexperience, and incompetence. Most of the time when I see people discuss 'noobs', they're combining inexperience with one or both of the other two.

[Winstonkalkaros]

Communication does not always work in good squads either. Sometimes SL has it's mic too loud or silent like a motherfuck. Or then he talks likeLKJFDLFJKDHÖFDNV that. I'v been in this kind of squad couple of times and i have to say that it's hard to do what he says cause you don't know what he says.

So please people, if someone complains about your VOIP quality, that is not to be taken lightly.

[kmellingsen]

The fact that most players on PR are proffesional, dedicated and serious, just makes this mod even better.

As a new player, as my self, i must say that it is with great fear i join a squad It is something else from playing Bad Company 2 on PS3 You have great squads/squadleaders that take good care of you as a noob, but you also have people that have little patience. Maybe you get kicked out of the squad or just simply get left behind. This is sad, because your motivation drops to zero. But this tells me a little bit about the realism in PR, wich is something i always seek and that i now have found.

What i do most of the time, is to play co-op, sometimes on a map without any other, just to get a hang of all the different type of equipment and buttons.

I have not seen the new player forum, how do i find it?