Pilot Class, Tanker Class, etc

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2005-01-14 00:16

Will this mod be incorperating Pilot Classes? Also I think Tanker classes would be a good idea also.

Pilot could have a pistol and a flare or flare gun, and could get into helis and jets.

Tanker class would have whatever your average tanks crew has ( i belive just a pistol), and would be able to get into tanks and other vehicles that are more complicated to operate than a jeep.

This would mean your average classes cannot enter aircraft and tanks. for apcs, the tanker class is the only one who can enter the driver seat, other clases can only get into the passenger seats.

Is it possible to make it so only a certain class can enter a certain position in a vehicle?

Silverwolf · Post by **Silverwolf** » 2005-01-14 00:50

don't know how possible it is, but that'd be VERY cool, though perhaps give both the pilot n driver class a wrench for repairs...

Archangel · Post by **Archangel** » 2005-01-14 05:01

this suggestion right here is probably the most realistic u could get, in a way, anyone could attempt to drive something they dont know how to its just wether or not they learn quick enough to make a difference or live...

Tacamo · Post by **Tacamo** » 2005-01-14 06:52

I'd prefer to see FH approach to tankers with them having a 50/50 chance of spawning with a pistol or carbine/PDW. I believe the Saudis give their tank crews P90's.

Silverwolf · Post by **Silverwolf** » 2005-01-15 01:33

Well if the MEC were gonna get P90s for their tank crews, that'd probably need to be balanced somehow, P90 vs Berretta 92... not good for the dude wit the pistol

So here's the compiled list of the changes I reckon would be good (most of which said already, I'm juist puttin em all in one post :wink

Pilot Class:

- Only class with parachute
- Has limited medic abilities (ie. if we're goin to hav this 'bleed' feature, they can stop the bleed, but can't acctually heal), as pilots do hav basic first aid gear in their suit.
- Only class that can fly Aircraft/Helos
- Armed with pistol & knife, or woteva is realistic to the specific sides equip.

'Tanker' Class:

- Only class that can drive Tanks, arty, LAVs, APCs etc (However anyone can drive the 'normal' vehicles, DPV, Humvee, Landrover etc.)
- Only class that can operate the main gun on Tank/Arty (not just any GI can jump in and do that... can they??)
- Can repair vehicles... I was just thinkin, should we even hav repair kits, as in rl guys don't usually just jump outta their tank/helo n repair it... but yeh, if we do hav them, tankers should get em.
- Armed with woteva weapons realistiv for that side.

There'll obviously need to be a bit of balancing between sides, due to weapon differences, but thats the basic layout.

As to other classes...

Combat Medic:
- Well all depends on which side for weapons of cors...
- Can 'heal', ie. stop bleeding, n give back some health
- .....anythin else??

Combat Engineer:
- Well like I'v said above, the repair kit... dunno if we should have that.
- Can plant C4, demo charges etc
- Weapons depend on side...
needs somethin else, but can't think wot atm.

Rifleman:
- basic assault classs, assault rifle, grenades, knife (pistol??)

'Gunner':
M60/SAW/RPK... etc etc n grenades n woteva else is realistic

Anti-Armour
RPG7/SMAW... etc etc n woteva else is realistic

Designated Marksman:
- Only 'sniper' that can join a squad
- Carries SPR or similar squad-based marksmen rifle
- binoculars??

Sniper:
- Only one allowed per team
- The ultimate in marksmen, carries M24/M82/SVD etc etc...
- binoculars... do we want him alone though, or do we want 2-man 'squads' of sniper n spotter?? If so...
- CANNOT join any squad except 'sniper squad' n only 1 per squad (acts as the squad leader)

Spotter:
- Onlyone allowed per team
- Assault rifle
- binoculars, higher powered then the ones everyone else carries
- target designator...??
- CANNOT join any squad except a 'sniper squad' n only 1 per squad

n last, but definately not least...

Special Forces:

- Carries weapons realistic to that side
- Can plant C4
- ONLY class that can pick up other sides weapons (n then only primary one)
- carries target designator
- SF can only join squads of other SF, n only one squad of SF allowed per team (so only 6 SF players on a team)

Note: Those applying to be SF, Sniper, or Spotter, cannot do so unless the comander lets them... if that can be coded.

So there's my idea for the Classes, that gives us 1, 2, 3..... 11 classes

. Ah well, u don't really only hav 7 classes in the military anyway

. Feeback most welcome...

CobraPhantom · Post by **CobraPhantom** » 2005-03-29 00:04

Thats pretty deep stuff their Silverwolf.

All I would really like to see in Pilot and Tanker classes. Nothing is more irriating to me when play DC, after you finally damage say an Apache enough, the pilot can simply bail out and have their choice of M-16, nade launcher, or nades. They should either commit to the vehicle or commit to the ground game, this cuts your typical Rambo players down to size.

TAW_Doedel · Post by **TAW_Doedel** » 2005-04-05 07:22

A) There should be TWO types of machineguns.. I saw it mentioned that either the SAW or M60 could be used.. why not both? They actually are very different. The SAW is more like a light machinegun, kind of a hybrid between an MG and an AR, while the M60 is actually a dedicated medium MG which can only be fired with some support, ie, laying down, or propped up on the ledge of a window.. whatever. The point being, using the same technique FH used with its Tank Crews randomly spawning with either a pistol or an SMG, those Support Kits could randomly spawn a SAW or M60.

B) We should all know that in reality gunners of anti-tank weapons, machineguns, etc, usually had a second man handing them extra ammo and reloading their weapons.. well, this could be achieved by giving those anti-tank and machinegun kits a single round of ammo -- whatever is in their gun. This would make them rely upon, gasp, the TEAMWORK factor of people with ammo giving them some! This leads to...

C) The Ammo-giver kit should not be armed with the Machinegun as it seems to be in BF2. This would negate post B, obviously. Instead, the ammo-supply guy should be relatively simply armed, with an ordinary assault rifle, and basically act like a regular assault kit except that he can give ammo.

D) Tank Crewman kits should be able to repair, slowly. There should be a second kit, maybe a spawnable one, that has a "faster" wrench, if this is possible. Tank crews can make minor repairs to their own tanks, but it usually takes dedicated personell to repair major damage.

E) Pilot class is a good idea, as is a specialized Airborne class specific to maps with paradrop planes.. like in FH's Crete map, some of the kits had parachutes. The Pilot kit should be spawnable, near airplanes, but otherwise there should be no parachutes.

F) Isn't killing enemy medics against the Geneva convention? If its possible, you should get a minus score for killing enemy medics! LOL! No, not really, that would be kind of silly.. however, I think medic classes should be rare, perhaps a spawnable kit even, again like in FH (Yes, FH does rock, doesn't it?) However, if I remember correctly, most soldiers have basic first aid training and most classes should have the ability to stop bleeding, but not heal..

G) Anti-Armour -- I believe all AT kits should be spawnable. RPG-7 and SMAW should be more abundant than the heavier Eryx and whatever heavy AT weapons. And they should do realistic damage. I was watching the newest video from BF2 and I noticed a heavy AT missile going off about 3 feet away from some enemy soldier, and he didn't seem to be hurt by it.. thats a lot of crock. Those are big weapons and they make big explosions. Weapons like the RPG-7 should be able to take out an entire room full of enemy soldiers, basically like a grenade.. hence the name, "Rocket-Propelled Grenade". In DC they were woefully underpowered and could only kill infantry on a direct hit. This should change. It will make it more powerful and risk becoming a balancing issue, but the fact that they should be spawnable kits hsould make up for that.. You'd have, say, 2 of them in the main base, and thats it.

H) I liked DC's strategy of giving lots of Binoculars out.. this should stay the same. Every kit should have them.. of course, the artillery system seems to be different in BF2 (no actual artillery vehicles?) so they are kind of unwarrented.. but some people should have them, to see long distances.

I) I like the idea of the SPR. A lot.

There's my feedback. I really hope this mod turns out well. From what I've seen about BF2, it looks like it's going to need a heckuvalotta modding for me to enjoy it. No Apaches.. wtf is that? Seriously? "Modern Combat" without a frikken Apache, but some 30 year old has-been Cobra? And the "Mideast Coalition" with T-90s, Su-34s, Ak-101s?? Nobody in the Middle East has those! NOBODY!

Tacamo · Post by **Tacamo** » 2005-04-05 09:38

The Vietnam era AH-1 Cobra is very different from the current AH-1W or AH-1Z Cobra's. The sea proofing makes it better suited to deal with dessert environments than the AH-64, plus it has a very nice assortment of weapons. The idea of ME nations using T-90's, SU-34's and AK-101's isn't that crazy either. If they currently buy and operate M1A1's, P90's, F-15's, AWACS and Patriot missle batteries, the three Russian weapon systems can be purchased and maintained easier.

Post by **JS.Fortnight.A** » 2005-04-05 18:54

IRT TAW_Doedel:

Regarding your point 'H', we have some great ideas for this 'issue', and are pretty sure that it will work for BF2. All of our stuff will be tested to make sure that it is fun, effective, and of course realistic.

Talon · Post by **Talon** » 2005-04-05 19:33

[R-DEV wrote: JS.Fortnight.A]IRT TAW_Doedel:

Regarding your point 'H', we have some great ideas for this 'issue', and are pretty sure that it will work for BF2. All of our stuff will be tested to make sure that it is fun, effective, and of course realistic.

Sounds great, I got slammed on Planet Battlefield for making the same type suggestions. Although I didn't go into classes and stuff I don't think. Great ideas all, I would really love to see a pilot, tank, support(ammo), and parajumper class.

Will there be fastroping? IE Special Forces would need some way for fast transportation without the use of a parachute, unless SF are the only ones with parachutes other then pilots?

Tacamo · Post by **Tacamo** » 2005-04-06 04:06

By now the M240B/G probably are more common than the M60E3. Only problem is that they're heavier, but still a better weapon overall. Then there's the M60E4 with the vertical grips made to be used by single person vs. the typical crew served role. That's likely to be replaced by the Mk. 48. It looks just like a big Mk. 46 but has some common parts with the M240.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2005-04-06 04:30

Tacamo wrote:By now the M240B/G probably are more common than the M60E3. Only problem is that they're heavier, but still a better weapon overall. Then there's the M60E4 with the vertical grips made to be used by single person vs. the typical crew served role. That's likely to be replaced by the Mk. 48. It looks just like a big Mk. 46 but has some common parts with the M240.

According to my info, the Ranger Regiment has phased out the M60E4/Mk-43 with the Mk-48 LMG to supplement their M240Bs. I say supplement, because the Mk-48 has its own strengths and limitations and won't be used for all of the same tasks as the M240B.

m0ldym1lk · Post by **m0ldym1lk** » 2005-04-06 21:19

If this idea is added in, lone infantry can NOT be able to take on a tank by themselves. The tank needs to be feared--something that will make the basic gruns run for cover and hide. If the AT class is going to be powerful, it needs to have a limit on it. If you want to see good use of tank classes, play Red Orchestra, a mod for UT2004. It worked out great for them.

TAW_Doedel · Post by **TAW_Doedel** » 2005-04-07 09:29

Actually, I was under the impression that a set of binoculars (just simple, cheap ones even) were very common.. I can go buy a pair of binos for like $1 at the dollar store and I would think that the US Army would want to give as many soldiers as possible the ability to increase their vision distance, not just the commanders.. but, I don't know much about the equipment micromanagement of the US Army.

TAW_Doedel · Post by **TAW_Doedel** » 2005-04-07 22:44

Yeah I agree with that 100% as well. How many anti-tank weapons does the average platoon have in its stocks? A squad of say, 5-10 men should really have only 1 anti-tank weapon, and even then, probably a SMAW or RPG or some other low-end.. those big massive things like the Eryx would really be specialized weapons and should be VERY rare, while RPGs and SMAWs etc should be a spawnable kit.. otherwise, like solo says, tank maps will have 80% AT guys launching guided missiles all over the place and it'd be death to any tank.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2005-04-12 03:17

TAW_Doedel wrote:Yeah I agree with that 100% as well. How many anti-tank weapons does the average platoon have in its stocks? A squad of say, 5-10 men should really have only 1 anti-tank weapon, and even then, probably a SMAW or RPG or some other low-end.. those big massive things like the Eryx would really be specialized weapons and should be VERY rare, while RPGs and SMAWs etc should be a spawnable kit.. otherwise, like solo says, tank maps will have 80% AT guys launching guided missiles all over the place and it'd be death to any tank.

Average US platoon varies according to type of unit (light infantry, airborne, air assault, Ranger, mechanized, BCT and Marine). Some platoons have organic ATGMs / reusable rocket launchers or recoilless rifles, but others have those assets attached to them as needed from the company and sometimes as high as battalion level. A US rifle platoon rarely, if ever, fights "pure;" remember, medics and hospital corpsmen come from the battalion medical platoon.

Airborne and air assault rifle platoons have an organic weapons squad with 2 x Javelin teams. Light infantry rifle company headquarters has a Javelin section with 6 x Javelin teams; if evenly detached to all three platoons in the company, once again, that's 2 x Javelin teams per platoon.

Ranger companies have a weapons platoon that includes an anti-armor squad of 3 x teams, which may employ the M3 MAAWS (84mm Carl Gustav M3 recoilless rifle) or the Javelin. Evenly detached, that's 1 per platoon. Marine rifle companies also have a weapons platoon with an assault section; 6 x SMAW teams, which can be evenly detached to each platoon, if the company commander desires. The Javelin platoon is found in the battalion weapons company.

Mech infantry (including SBCT) is where it gets ugly; depending on METT, there could be a Javelin in each of the three dismount squads of a rifle platoon. Each squad has a designated anti-armor specialist (a rifleman who has been trained to use the Javelin, rather than a dedicated MOS like the Marines), who might normally carry an M136 (AT4) and a rifle, but can be assigned a Javelin CLU.

And of course, a few men in each squad, depending on METT, may carry either the M136(AT-4) or the XM141(SMAW-D) Bunker Defeat Munition. So, perhaps two of them per rifle fire team. But these are last ditch weapons against a significant armored threat.

So, as you can see, depending on the type of unit and the situation, US anti-armor capability is feast or famine.

Old soviet organization has an RPG-7 or 16 in each dismounted rifle squad of the motorised infantry platoon, with a gunner (launcher and pistol) and an assistant (rifle and backpack with additional rounds).