Its a trap!

[badmojo420]

I'd like to start a discussion about the grenade traps.

My biggest question would be why are they virtually ignored? Is it the massive amounts of teamkills they get? Is it the risk of 3 people punishing you and then being auto-banned? Is their effectiveness low? Or some other reason?

Personally, I don't use them anymore due to being banned too many times. But, I'm of the opinion, that if used enough, people will adapt to the traps and start watching their step. I feel it's due to their lack of usage, that we have this false sense of security running around without a care. It's the same as driving around in a bombcar, you have to keep the threat of friendly mines in the back of your mind at all times, even if there is no marking on the map.

Any teamkills are bad. But, do people on here consider it the fault of the placer? or the guy who stepped on it? Should the traps even get marked? Or is that a waste of time. Would a different color marker or even a whole new icon help with this?

I've suggested removing the punish ability from them, but does anyone have any ideas to make the grenade trap more useful? I just can't help feel that such a powerful opfor tool should be getting used more.

[LithiumFox]

I think it's due to the lack of intelligence amongst our fellow players.

Everyone's stupid. =/

[lucky14]

i run over marked mines sometimes. yeah, im that stupid.

[Rudd]

imo the grenade trap is a useful tool, however is not quite done yet

1) needs to go off unless you jump over
2) needs a realistic method of destruction, rather than proning through and ignoring them.
3) perhaps needs to insta kill

but right now I find them pretty useful, though players have become more adept at spotting the little black wire

[lucky14]

Oh, and one thing I did find with it, is that the little black line doesn't go far enough it seems. I can go around the black line, but it would still go off :/

[badmojo420]

1) needs to go off unless you jump over
2) needs a realistic method of destruction, rather than proning through and ignoring them.
3) perhaps needs to insta kill

I don't know about jumping over them. The bf jump system is pretty screwy at times. It would be nice if you could crouch and get over them, but if you were standing or had your weapon scoped, it'd be fast enough to set it off. And, I'm not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure if you double up the trap, it's an insta-kill. Or in some cases, a double kill.

[TheAmazingYant]

They're a little problematic to use due to their tendency to rack up teamkills, however I'm not entirely convinced that isn't partially due to the user misplacing them.

I've had some success in the past with the traps. I generally like to study the map and get an idea for where the enemy is likely to approach from, and set up a mess of traps along that axis. Remember that players - especially those anticipating combat - will generally move as close as possible to cover, such as destroyed vehicles, trees, and other stuff that lies around the battlefield. If on insurgency, try to anticipate where enemies will be searching for caches, and set up your traps accordingly.

Most recently a buddy and I made a squad on Ramiel, where the two of us took sapper kits. We almost completely avoided any combat for the duration of the round, and still racked up a 10-7 kdr. We grabbed one of the two-seat pick-up trucks that drop three ammo crates, and used that to keep supplies very close to where we are setting traps to decrease the time needed to rearm.

So I find they work fairly well with a little skill, a little luck, and a fair helping of patience.

[alberto_di_gio]

that mass amount of TK would be easily ignored: Just stop putting them on cache doorways!!! What is the logic to put them in a building where all team spawns or comes in/out?

[badmojo420]

that mass amount of TK would be easily ignored: Just stop putting them on cache doorways!!! What is the logic to put them in a building where all team spawns or comes in/out?

The cache is the enemies objective. Do you really need me to explain why setting up defensive measures around the thing your supposed to defend, is logical?

Also, why is it not logical to setup traps around your spawns? Even around your hideouts. The enemy might come there and try to take it down before searching for a cache. Players shouldn't let their guard down just because they spawned in a second ago. This isn't halo, there is no need to sprint away from a spawn. Spawn in, and observe the situation. This is especially true with caches.

[Rudd]

The cache is the enemies objective. Do you really need me to explain why setting up defensive measures around the thing your supposed to defend, is logical?

the cache is the primary source for ammo for the insurgent team as well as being a source of AT weapons which the insurgents rely on.

put traps around the thing blufor want, maybe you'll kill 2 of them, meanwhile teh insurgent team is being slaughtered because they have no ammo and not enough AT.

Also, why is it not logical to setup traps around your spawns? Even around your hideouts. The enemy might come there and try to take it down before searching for a cache. Players shouldn't let their guard down just because they spawned in a second ago. This isn't halo, there is no need to sprint away from a spawn. Spawn in, and observe the situation. This is especially true with caches.

a hideout
- a place that the insurgents will visit with a 100% certainty
- a place that the blufor might visit, and if they do the spawn turns off making it rather obvious that they are there

it would be like me putting AT mines on all teh roads in Britain in case the Russians invade
sure, the Russians might invade, but British people will definately be on those roads

[Nakata]

i dont punish trap teamkill...

WAS MY MISTAKE NOT THE GUY WHO PLACE THE TRAP!!!!!

And some guys punish and thinks he is right...
Usually a man polaying as isnsurgent side forget the existence of traps...
Know when I set a trap i keep looking it and when a friend goes to it i shot on the trap to make him see the trap...

[badmojo420]

the cache is the primary source for ammo for the insurgent team as well as being a source of AT weapons which the insurgents rely on.

put traps around the thing blufor want, maybe you'll kill 2 of them, meanwhile teh insurgent team is being slaughtered because they have no ammo and not enough AT.



a hideout
- a place that the insurgents will visit with a 100% certainty
- a place that the blufor might visit, and if they do the spawn turns off making it rather obvious that they are there

it would be like me putting AT mines on all teh roads in Britain in case the Russians invade
sure, the Russians might invade, but British people will definately be on those roads

Grenade traps don't prevent access. I've seen plenty of players get ammo from a cache that had grenade traps around it. Or navigate the traps around a hideout. If we lower our standards to that of the weakest player,(the guy who sprints into a trap while people are crawling over it) we'll just end up with a weak game.

People blow up their own caches with bomb vehicles or IEDs. But, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be used around the cache. People just need to learn from their mistakes. If you keep dying from grenade traps around the spawns, perhaps you take more care next time?

Just to clearify my opinion, when I say use traps around the cache, I mean use them logically. Not RIGHT where people spawn, or hidden inside bushes or rocks. They should be in clear view from the defenders side. And not so close to the cache or hideout to cause damage on it. If the cache is inside a walled compound, and there is only 1 gate, it would be logical to put traps in that gate.

Marking them and informing the team over chat is also a good idea.

[Xanos]

I absolutely like grenade traps. They are a funny addition to the insurgency mode. I like them best combined with a ied close to it. One guy walks into the trap, count to 10, blow the ied, whole squad is gone .

But to stay on topic: I cannot stand the people putting them close to caches and spawnpoints. Players are stupid, players dont watch for the traps, some players dont know there are such a thing. Like Rudd said, with every trap you might take 1 or 2 blufor guys, which will be resurrected anyway, but you tk a whole lot of your own side.

"People just need to learn from their mistakes." yeah, this works for the trap-guys too. But the common behavior on the servers is to put the trap back on the ground, even when the 5th own guy just walked in it.
Why are these people keep doing that? Do they want to proove a thing? Kind of "My trap is brilliant, once the blufor is here, they wont be able to reach the cache... hehehe"
If 5 own guys just walked into your trap, your trap is not useful at all. Accept it, learn from your mistake, please, do your team a favor.
One simple grenade trap do not defend a cache. Whether the blufor destroys the cache by armor support or throwing nades into the building or one blufor runs into the trap, the rest of the squad destroys the cache, put their guy back to live and go away with a smile.

[Deer]

Since battlefield 1942 mines and traps has killed more friendlies than enemies, and i think it will always stay like that, ppl wont learn, ever =)

[bloodthirsty_viking]

usually when i place traps, i place a ton of them and spam the team chat every 5 minutes - MINES, TRIPMINE, IED'S IN THIS AREA- WATCH OUT OR DONT ENTER!-

same if i put it on a cache entryway -MANY TRIPMINES AT THE CACHE IN XX, BE CARFULL FOR TRIPMINES IN XX-

[Arnoldio]

Maybe a vanilla 3d mine marker for frendlies, only appears in radius of 4m.

[Hresvelgr]

usually when i place traps, i place a ton of them and spam the team chat every 5 minutes - MINES, TRIPMINE, IED'S IN THIS AREA- WATCH OUT OR DONT ENTER!-

same if i put it on a cache entryway -MANY TRIPMINES AT THE CACHE IN XX, BE CARFULL FOR TRIPMINES IN XX-

I did this all the time with mines in FH2, always placing them in a churchtower I was sniping from and would constantly remind my team not to go up there, but more often than not there'd be the one jerk who does it. Often it was also the same kind of dude who'd go up to my sniping position and lay down on top the the window sill so that half of their body was totally exposed and easy to see and attract tank HE rounds, and he didn't even have a scoped weapon.

Anyways, I stopped using grenade-traps due to teamkills, but I liked them and always blame the guy who tripped them, especially as I always marked them and after a few mistakes stopped putting them at cache entrances. I will admit to making stupid mistakes that got myself killed from a trap, but I always made sure to go to teamchat and personally apologize to the guy who set the trap up.

[Rudd]

Maybe a vanilla 3d mine marker for frendlies, only appears in radius of 4m.

I wouldn't want to go back to that exact system, but perhaps if there is a marker placed there should be a icon in the bottom left corner of the HUD to tell you that someone has marked a mine/trap within 6m of your location. unobtrusive, and doesn't tell you exactly where it is, it just takes a bit of strain off the player.

[Wh33lman]

excerpts from "1000+ Things I learned in PR"

TmanEd: 287: The only way to effectively use a grenade trap is to put it in the same place (while still warning everyone and putting a marker, etc) time and time again, no matter how many teammates die. . . After about five or ten die, they generally figure out that there's a trap there, and that they should crawl through it. Then when the Blufor troops attack, they get pwnt by the traps, and everyone gets an M4. Everyone wins!

TmanEd: 336: . . . before entering a friendly stronghold, press Z

If you step on a grenade trap thats marked and you were warned of in team chat, its your fault. Don't punish because you wern't paying attention.

A 3D marker or HUD marker would make things alot easier, but I dont think the DEV's will go for either.

[Riflewizard]

People don't know how to avoid grenade traps. i was the cell leader on insurgency on al-basrah, and i was on the other side of a fence while my 3 members were crawling over a trap. Then i see this random guy SPRINTING towards the gap in the fence that my guys were crawling over. I ended up having to rip him up with my G3 before he set off the trap and killed all 4 of us and himself.


there really should be a 3d marker that appears when you get very close to the trap, otherwise idoits will always be running over friendly traps.