Its a trap!

[alberto_di_gio]

The cache is the enemies objective. Do you really need me to explain why setting up defensive measures around the thing your supposed to defend, is logical?

Also, why is it not logical to setup traps around your spawns? Even around your hideouts. The enemy might come there and try to take it down before searching for a cache. Players shouldn't let their guard down just because they spawned in a second ago. This isn't halo, there is no need to sprint away from a spawn. Spawn in, and observe the situation. This is especially true with caches.

mojo... you are more than experienced in bf2 and pr I guess and you know that people are hard learner and even not learner ever when it comes to grenade traps (claymores). No way you achieve your goal if you use them in crowded cache locations. If not first, second or third fourth one will eventually step on it.

Traps are logical; IF only one, well communicated squad defends the perimeter. Tested and approved

[EmBra]

3) perhaps needs to insta kill

This^^.

[Coolio]

The problem with grenade traps is there is always one guy who thinks it's a smart idea to put grenade traps right at the entrance to the cache.

It's like they picture in their heads, the second they put the traps down and run behind a dumpster to hide, a Humvee with 5 guys come, with a HAT, sniper, combat engineer, AR and medic kit. One guy runs over the trap and kills everyone.

Honestly that is what I must believe, because I can't think of any other reason for dropping nade traps in an area where 3/4 of the tear is currently at. The only time to ever use grenade traps at the cache is if you and like 4 other people are defending it and no one can spawn near it at all.

[badmojo420]

mojo... you are more than experienced in bf2 and pr I guess and you know that people are hard learner and even not learner ever when it comes to grenade traps (claymores). No way you achieve your goal if you use them in crowded cache locations. If not first, second or third fourth one will eventually step on it.

Traps are logical; IF only one, well communicated squad defends the perimeter. Tested and approved

If 4 people can navigate the trap, and 1 person blows up, why do 5 people need to be punished? If we have players who don't know what a grenade trap is or how to get over it, that's not something we should be supporting by putting less grenade traps around areas we're in.

Grenade traps are almost pointless in places with no friendlies. As people have pointed out already, the medic can just heal the guy who triggered it. They're only good when they can be followed up with an ambush. They're like trip flares that slow down the coalition.

I'm just as bad as anybody when it comes to walking into grenade traps. But, it's the complete opposite when it comes to me driving into mines. It's because I expect there to be mines everywhere, especially around caches. I don't expect grenade traps to be setup, they never are. I believe that if people started using them more, we would inevitably become more careful about walking into one.

I've had some great games laying grenade traps, it's all about getting the right people, who'll embrace the hassle of navigating them. I've also been auto-banned from people punishing. It's never fun to be standing beside a group of people and watch someone sprint into a trap, killing everyone. Even worse when it's your own trap.

badmojo420: watch out for the grenade trap!
badmojo420: ahh man, sorry i tried to warn you.
You have been punished for a teamkill.
You have been punished for a teamkill.
You have been punished for a teamkill.

badmojo420 is being auto-banned. (Reason: Teamkilling)

badmojo420: noooooooooo!!!

[Nebsif]

People think there are free cookies on mine markers.

Few days ago a guy wasted a bomb car and then a gary on my mines at the same place while I also warned him in chat when I saw him coming, twice!. >.>

[TmanEd]

I think that maybe they should be able to place a 3D marker near where the traps are. People could see it without looking at the map, and would be more likely to be careful.

They're great at breaking an assault when used correctly. Put two in the entrance of one of those small-ish square strongholds, one after another, and as soon as the Blufor comes knocking, BOOM. BOOM. After that, there should only be a few to mop up.

[Nakata]

The big problem is the guy who punish a trap teamKill like i stop in front of him and shot on his face...

At braziliam server punish no intencional TK is forbidden so even you place a trap and a friend recive a TK on it the man who set the trap is not punish. BUT see traps on the map is rare, becose you kill more friends than foes...

[=]H[=TangFiend]

I had an absolutely awful time with this on TG yesterday night.

I caused 7 teamkills with mines and traps and did not kill one enemy.

It was a round on Ramiel, we had a nicely situated cache building. I did all my mine placement at intersections within 1-2 blocks from the cache bldg. All my traps were on the inboard side of alleyways of nearby buildings so friendlies could physically see the tin can on approach.

Nothing in or directly around the cache bldg itself.


All traps were marked. I typed in team chat twice in ALL CAPS to watch for mines and traps. And the entire time I was setting up I if I ran past a friendly I would mumble local "watch out for mines and traps"

Thankfully Tactical Gamer is awesome and nobody punished or got upset. Most guys were apologetic for wasting my traps.



There does have to be a better way however.

I agree with the vanilla mine hud markers for friendlies even if they show up only <5 meters away. It's still something.

[google]

While I never punish anyone when I run over a grenade trap, I sometimes them to stop putting them down in team chat. Why?

Most of the people in this thread claim that those who run over friendly grenade traps (often while sprinting) are idiots. Now let me ask you this, when you place a grenade trap, do you put it out it out in plain sight? Probably not, because that wouldn't catch a hostile off-guard. I'm going to assume that people who place grenade traps put them at chokepoints and make some effort of making them stealthy/hidden.

Now, lets assume (for a moment) that all players on the server are of equal intellect and have the same level of trap-spotting ability. If a grenade trap's placement is designed to catch people off guard, why should the average insurgent player have super spotting abilities as compared to the average blufor player? I also ask which team will have more bodies in the proximity of the cache/city? Which team has more people that constantly need to be moving around the city (often at high speeds in order to defend critical points). The insurgent team is. While it's a bit of a stretch, mining the chokepoints in the area around the cache is like mining off the main in a standard AAS game.

The obvious answer to the first question in my second paragraph is that traps can be marked on the map and one can use team-text. I'd like to address both of these. For the map, the average player shouldn't have to open their map every couple of minutes in order to check for mines in the area (that would be impractical). More importantly, however, the average insurgent shouldn't have to open their map every time they need to move somewhere (often moving in a rapid manner). Insurgents are not vehicles, it is impractical for them to have to plan out their movement path every time they need to move.

Many people in this thread also say that they often give warning messages in team chat when they are putting down grenade traps. This is utterly useless and doesn't actually tell the insurgent anything. One must also take into account that the message only appears for about 10 seconds (often less if other people are talking). I know that if I'm concentrated on something, I can't be bothered to read all of the **** in the chat.

So, my point is this. Grenade Traps are designed to trap people. There are no current methods that can practically keep the insurgent player up to date one every single location of every single grenade trap on the map. I would say that insurgents travel grenade-trapped areas about 3 times more than blufor players do. Without some kind of vanilla marking system, grenade traps are simply teamkills waiting to happen. Grenade traps are not practical.

Also, I know that if someone joins a server after a mine has been placed, that mine is invisible to that player. Does this apply to grenade traps too?

[Cassius]

Setting up traps around the cache/ spawn area is okay, seldome done, setting up a grenade trap on the one doorway everyone has to go through is different. Mine areas the blueforce are likely to search, rather than the cache itself.

[Looy]

Grenade traps are only useful when you scare BLUFOR into them. E.G You mine a building very obviously then wait nearby, when the BLUs come you fire at them wildly and hope that they take cover in the mined building.


To all the people saying that its okay to mine caches, it really not:

1) Someone will set it off eventually.
1b) Even if you warn everyone on the server, at least one guy will be different language/on the toilet/can't read/retarded.
1c) Even if everyone is a sane, mature, literate player. Someone will forget.
1d) If no one forgets a new guy will join, spawn on the cache and run straight into it.
1e) "OH SHIT APC! SOMEONE GET THE RPG!" ..................boom, dead

2) It slows the team down.
2b) Seriously it takes minutes to actually leave spawn if you put down too many.
2b) "OH SHIT APC! SOMEONE GET THE RPG!" ............. "Which wanker put this here?" ..."Seriously I should not be crawling right now" .... "FUUUUU" ... "Finally!" ... "Okay coming ba- OH SHIT APC AT CAC-" ...dead

3) BLUFOR virtually never dies to them anyway, they have medics.

[SSnake]

Setting up traps around the cache area (50m min distance)and properly marking them is helpfull for the Ins team and worth some tks. You can put them in a way that it's easier for most ppl coming from caches/hideouts see them than for the Blufor that's most of the time coming from the oposite direction (into that área). Problem is that many ppl are selfish/stupid and will punish even when they know it was their own fault, making you waste your time/score and risk an auto ban... But I still find it effective to go to some building/passageway far away from you team (alone or with a small squad) set traps at all entrances and try to make them check that buiding.

[badmojo420]

To all the people saying that its okay to mine caches, it really not:

1) Someone will set it off eventually.
1b) Even if you warn everyone on the server, at least one guy will be different language/on the toilet/can't read/retarded.
1c) Even if everyone is a sane, mature, literate player. Someone will forget.
1d) If no one forgets a new guy will join, spawn on the cache and run straight into it.
1e) "OH SHIT APC! SOMEONE GET THE RPG!" ..................boom, dead

2) It slows the team down.
2b) Seriously it takes minutes to actually leave spawn if you put down too many.
2b) "OH SHIT APC! SOMEONE GET THE RPG!" ............. "Which wanker put this here?" ..."Seriously I should not be crawling right now" .... "FUUUUU" ... "Finally!" ... "Okay coming ba- OH SHIT APC AT CAC-" ...dead

3) BLUFOR virtually never dies to them anyway, they have medics.

1. Duh, that's the point of the thing.

1b. That's why we all have eyes, and can see a trap for ourselves. Prevention it's perfect.

1c. Oh no!! No death on the scoreboard, short respawn time, kits stay for 5mins now, kit can't be taken by tk'er, etc. Being team killed isn't the end of the world you know.

1d. Sure, there are problems with the BF2 engine that we can't help, but we shouldn't let engine limitations hold us back. (Thank god the devs didn't)

1e. If you're waiting for an APC to show up, before you get an RPG ready, that's your stupidity. The cache isn't a base of operations, and you shouldn't be running back to it at the first sign of danger.

2. Your team is defending. Slow is a good thing.

2b. So? Imagine how long it takes when everyone of those traps means another man to revive and heal?

2b. Another 2b? And it's the same as 1e?

3. True, but they never die from normal grenades, and people still throw them. It's all about slowing down their assault, and when they're busy healing someone, they're not assaulting your position.

[Looy]

snip

1. But 9/10 it will be friendly.

1b. Then why does anyone set off the trap at all?

1c. No, but it's pretty disruptive to the team if people keep exploding.

1d. Limitations do hold us back, that's why there limitations. You shouldn't ignore something just because you don't like it, you should pay more attention to it in fact.

1e. I'm saying that there may be some situation where you need to get to the cache quickly, and the grenade traps won't at all help.

2. Not when you want to get away from the cache to stop the enemy setting up on the hills all around it.

2b. See 3.

2b. Basically

3. They die from normal grenades all the bloody time.

[Xanos]

You have some good points there, Looy. Sadly some people dont want to see the problems with close-to-the-cache-traps, but its a free game, everyone can play the way he/she wants.

I have an addition to the marker-thing.
The mine markers work ok for the at-mines on streets, why? Cause you have a map while driving! There are people who still run over it, but thats obviously their fault. (Besides.. these things are big black cakes lying around, easy to spot if not hidden in a stone or something)

But the mine markers dont work for the traps. You do not have a map all the time, nobody want to open the map every few seconds. Plus the marker-placing is so inaccurate, you are just not able to tell where they actually are.


And there is another with friendly setting of grenade traps close to a cache.
Its common sense, that shooting RPGs from the cache building is a no go. (3 out of 5 people do it anyway...) But have you ever considered that the exploding traps accompanied by tk-messages might lead the blufor straight to the cache perimeter?
I actually have seen it happen a few times and once tried it myself with my squad. Its not as obvious as the RPGs, but its kind of an interesting and funny scavenger hunt.

[badmojo420]

You have some good points there, Looy. Sadly some people dont want to see the problems with close-to-the-cache-traps,

And sadly, some people don't want to use their imaginations and entertain the idea that players can adapt to new things.

[Looy]

And sadly, some people don't want to use their imaginations and entertain the idea that players can adapt to new things.

Players will only use something if it's effective. Players will only adapt to something if it is used.

Grenade Traps are not usually effective. Therefore players will not adapt.

How about you adapt to our strategy of sprinting to move faster by not placing GTs all over the place?

[Gozjh]

Would It be possible to add a second mark on the compass to alert freindlys?

[MrTomRobs]

Im in two minds about this topic. Ok, a 3d marker would indeed reduce the number of team kills, but that really does start to infringe on the realism aspect of PR.

If i ever decide to plant grenade traps, if the cache is in a compound or inside a building, i trap everywhere other than the cache, so that when i see blufor, i know that they're just going to be coming straight up my way, so i get someone with a PKM to stick with me and stick it to them.

Like someone's mentioned before, if you play the game at the slowest player's pace, you have a weak game. Ok, take that, but change the word play to think, and you have a completely different kettle of fish.

If you start thinking - 'Ok, i've got a grenade trap and i'm going to mine the cache, where is the most friendly traffic going to come from, and where are blufor likely to look for the cache in another place than where the cache is?' Play like that, and there you go - minimised team kills.

The majority of newblets tend to run straight out of the cache and go looking for the enemy and piss them off. Those with a bit more experience or tactical knowhow tend to get in buildings that look on the building that the cache is in. These are the buildings i'd prefer to mine because they tend to have more experienced players in them who may be a bit more aware that mines are being placed, and they are also pretty likely to be searched by blufor.