Wounded state and revive timer

[a0jer]

As the game is now, if you are shot enough to be killed you become an invincible ragdoll for 5 minutes or until a friendly medic sticks you with adrenalin. I believe this system is unrealistic and forces bizarre gameplay and tactics that have no base in reality.

Here is my suggestion to remove the ragdoll revive system.

Increase black & white bleed out time to roughly 120 seconds either by slowing bleeding down or by increasing total health by 25-50% but the extra health is only "black & white" time (diagram yo).



Decrease 'wounded' ragdoll time to 30 seconds

That is 150 seconds in total, 2 and a half minutes in which you should find a medic, less if you are shot while you are 'b&w wounded' you should be hiding in cover or dropping smoke.

I believe this would increase the use of the medic bag while keeping epipens for use only as a last resort. It would also add a sort of urgency to being shot or wounded as I hate bleeding out, and I imagine lonewolf anti-squad players do to, so if this encourages people to hang around with medics and squads then it has to be a good thing right?


Positives: (that i can think of)
You would have the ability to pick up 'b&w wounded' soldiers in a transport to be treated further away from fighting.

'b&w wounded' soldiers can crawl to a medic

A 'b&w wounded' insurgent would be arrestable, rather than left on the ground as a 'wounded' ragdoll. As long as he doesn't hear you coming and drop a grenade on himself.

it would be possible to kill other players and be 100% certain they will not be revived minutes after you have moved past them.

Negatives: (that i can think of)
Increasing b&w time does not increase deviation so if a player had his sights on the enemy when he was shot he can continue to fire somewhat accurately despite being blinded.

People will complain about not getting 5 minutes to be revived, my advice to them would be: try not to get shot in the first place.


I hope this suggestion is received better than my last block of text, I put a lot of thought into this and hopefully it isn't all hardcoded impossible to implement stuff. PR is a very immersive game and I love playing it, but every time I have to waste time camping a group of ragdolls it completely kills the immersion.

[Ccharge]

I think what we have now is good. 30 seconds of revive time is to low. While yes, increasing the B&W time will give a chance of the medic bag being used more, I find it more realistic that they spend time in the wounded state. This is more realistic due to the fact that a soldier who has been shot up enough will not be able to go on a merry walk back to the medic. Arma's system is perfect in my eyes but we can't have that in this. (decreased accuracy, slower walking, etc)

[a0jer]

I find it more realistic that they spend time in the wounded state. This is more realistic due to the fact that a soldier who has been shot up enough will not be able to go on a merry walk back to the medic.

I assure you walking to a medic under fire while b&w is not a merry walk, it happens in the current version all the time. There's no reason not to walk to a medic because If you get shot again it doesn't matter, you are closer to the medic and you become an invincible ragdoll/listening post for the next couple of minutes until revive.

[TmanEd]

Maybe a way to kill a ragdoll with a few more shots/a knife? Is it even possible?

[Rudd]

Maybe a way to kill a ragdoll with a few more shots/a knife? Is it even possible?

you can do it with grenades, so I'm not sure.

the suggestion is interesting, however I would want the bleeding to remain where it is ingame as a wounded soldier should quickly have an impediment ingame, (blood on screen) iirc the bleed level is around 75% ingame currently.

keeping the bleed level high encourages soldiers ingame to disengage and find a medic rather than carry on shooting hoping that he was hit by a lucky shot.

[HAAN4]

medic sistem will be not realistic in PR1, best luck in PR2 for good.

[ytman]

I view the current system as an analogy of the 'victorious' side tending to its injured soldiers and 'reinforcing' the area. Rewarding the 'victors' by allowing revives (which leaves them open to counter attack) is important with how the game currently works. It is absolutely necessary to allow revives for a defending team since they lack a proper way of reinforcements, for the attackers it is equally necessary since they must be ready for the counter attack.

Its unrealistic, but really PR is unrealistic, its full of analogies of real war but doesn't attempt to be a sim. This is the nice balance we have. Yes, it is frustrating gunning down an entire squad only to find that they get revived, and yes I think a mechanic that allows the 'killing' of wounded soldiers more efficiently is needed... but I don't feel this is required.

[Looy]

I think there needs to be a way of finishing players off. AFAIK Only explosive damage hurts wounded players, so make the knife damage type explosive with 0 blast radius or something like that.

[Ccharge]

I think there needs to be a way of finishing players off. AFAIK Only explosive damage hurts wounded players, so make the knife damage type explosive with 0 blast radius or something like that.

Already been suggested, plus, have you ever heard of the geneva convention?

[Turner]

Something you guys need to fiks(the key below s on my keyboard doesnt work lol)is that a headshot, should be a headshot. I dont get how you could be shot in the head, and then be revived.

[rushn]

i thought in VBF2 if you shot a wounded guy you killed them making their kit accessible to you

[doop-de-doo]

The black and white effect is to simulate the dizziness and frailty a solder experiences before passing out. I don't think we should extend the given time period before a player collapses.

[archerfenris]

Already been suggested, plus, have you ever heard of the geneva convention?

Soldiers are allowed to continue shooting enemy combatants even when wounded if their weapons are within reach. Atleast the U.S. Army trains its soldiers with a "better safe than sorry" approach. Unless the guy is showing his hands in surrender or he doesn't have a weapon or you've already moved across the objective and called LOA (Limit of Advance) then you're free to engage all wounded targets on the ground provided they have a weapon and are considered a threat.

A common tactic on ambushes is to fire for a certain amount of time. After the cease fire command is given the leader will listen to any movement or groaning in the kill zone. If he hears wounded men screaming and moving around he'll give the command to open fire again. It's seen as ensuring the safety of your own men due to the fact that enemies can booby trap their own bodies, leave a grenade under them, or pretend to be dead and then shoot you. It's also within the geneva convention.

[a0jer]

The black and white effect is to simulate the dizziness and frailty a solder experiences before passing out. I don't think we should extend the given time period before a player collapses.

The problem is that after a player collapses they can see, hear, use the map, communicate and are invincible for 5 minutes after they have been shot multiple times and after they have bled out to the point of losing consciousness. If most of that time was used up before they fell less time would be wasted by the victor squad having to babysit the ragdolls and prepare for a reviver's arrival (or time spent finding and hiding the medic kit :mrgreen . Nobody likes being flanked by a squad they just killed.

I realize this is a game and some people see the long medic revive time as a genuine assault or defense strategy so I want to point out that 30 seconds + whatever b&w time is remaining is enough time to help somebody if they got to cover when they were shot and told you they were wounded. Remember b&w time would be doubled and total health would be increased respectively so chances are you would be healing and not reviving.

The only people this would drastically affect are loners, point men and squads without medics (although the latter is screwed regardless)

and it looks like a pretty easy tweak to do (nice work dev team), so i'll be giving it a go this weekend on a 2 person lan.

weird fact: ragdoll soldiers appear to have 320 hitpoints and can only be damaged by explosions.

[Nakata]

I think there needs to be a way of finishing players off. AFAIK Only explosive damage hurts wounded players, so make the knife damage type explosive with 0 blast radius or something like that.

Playing as insurgent you can burn the body with molotov cocktail to FINISH HIM!(Mortal Kombat \o/). When is possible I do it becose the guy waits a medic to revive him...

I think the time of "out of combat"(on he floor bleeding) to be DEAD should be short...

[karambaitos]

This is just NO in my mind i love the current system and how it awards medics and squads that use their medic efficiently it also give the game a more teamwork, 30s for revive is just horrible since sometimes reviving a player can take more than a minute when he's on a hill or stuck in a wall.

[ytman]

I do agree that being able to see the map in a functioning state while wounded is a bit silly when you are black and white you can't see anything.

[SSnake]

I rather leave it the way it is, plus I haven't seen this effect for a long time ( some ppl on this forum says it has something to do with the video card drivers/model you are using and the AA effect active) so it could be exploited.

But it would be nice if after a certain amount of damage taken your character was animated to fall on the ground semi concious but alive (instead of turning into a ragdoll), which means he could still get shots and turn become dead dead or be revived by medic. But I bet this is not possible with the engine.

[Nakata]

Yeah i dont see the B/W screen after use the video at HIGH and i dont no why...

[rampo]

medic sistem will be not realistic in PR1, best luck in PR2 for good.

How about we try and make it as good as we can eh?