Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

a0jer
Posts: 80
Joined: 2010-05-17 23:51

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by a0jer »

FunkDoctorSpot wrote:I dont realy know what your problem is

Most of the caches are not shootable (is this even a word) from outside of the city, so infantry will have to go in
I rarely see the Littlebirds up more than 15minutes, so if the BLUFOR-Team manages to kill 3 caches with them, either your team sucked, or their team deserved it
Sounds like you have bad pilots.

Even with an amazing insurgent team it is incredibly hard to win on karbala against an organized US team, especially with so many caches spawning on rooftops or the outskirts of the city.
boilerrat
Posts: 1482
Joined: 2009-09-02 07:47

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by boilerrat »

There is no "Set up an ambush"

There is no way to do that when the whole US team is out in the desert shooting in to get intel then take it out with the LB or tank.... you can't kill the tank with a suicide vehicle because of how open it is.

I rarely ever see ambushes because it isn't effective on maps like karbala.
Image
FunkDoctorSpot
Posts: 13
Joined: 2010-04-23 20:59

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by FunkDoctorSpot »

I dont talk about ambushes like IRL
I'm talking about 1 or 2 guys with IEDs and stuff
That works everytime fine, when i am an insurgent

If you dont want to get shot at, stay away from the edge of the city and defend the cache, wich is rarely seen right at the edge
Pronck
Posts: 1778
Joined: 2009-09-30 17:07

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by Pronck »

The pipebombs IEDs aren't powerfull enough to make heavy vehicles even tracked when having a Full Hit of 4 of them.

Also the fact that the ammo cars won't respawn will make "big" ambushes unlikely.
We are staying up!
hades198
Posts: 71
Joined: 2009-12-03 22:31

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by hades198 »

FunkDoctorSpot wrote:I dont realy know what your problem is

Most of the caches are not shootable (is this even a word) from outside of the city, so infantry will have to go in
I rarely see the Littlebirds up more than 15minutes, so if the BLUFOR-Team manages to kill 3 caches with them, either your team sucked, or their team deserved it
maybe its your pilots.. im a bad pilot but i can keep the LB up for over an hour or so and get 20-30+ kills its all about strategy .. for highly defended targets go to 500+ cut the power n do vertical dives using guns first then hydras at last minute since they are a lil inaccurate.... people treat the LB as a spec ops heli and try to copy their Hollywood counterparts as the LB is more of a strategic scout/light attack aircraft.. not rambo's plaything :)
Looy
Posts: 73
Joined: 2010-05-31 12:26

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by Looy »

As INS we once lost after 3 hours play with the americans still on 275 tickets. Their entire team was armour, heli, sniper or humvee and they just roamed around the desert firing HEAT shells into caches. They never took any risks and we couldn't leave the city to try and take some tickets due to all the long range weapons on the map.

I think the tank should be removed completely, don't replace it with a Bradley. The crows and strikers are fine as RPGs can take them out though. Maybe only have one LB too, but with half the spawn time.
dtacs
Posts: 5512
Joined: 2008-12-07 23:30

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by dtacs »

USA-Forever932 wrote:I think Karbala is fine where it is. Just played a round as the USMC and lost. I was the commander, every squad followed orders. There were tactics and teamwork. We hit caches properly and lost. We suffered in deep city fights and managed to come off well in outer city fights with losses. Eventually USA was worn down due to slight problems in teamwork. The map is decently balanced as far as I can tell.

YES, 3 caches were blown up by LBs but only after air threats were killed by other forces working with the LBs and after they had been spotted. This map, IMO, Is one of the most well balanced maps in PR at it's current state.
Well I must say thats one rare round. Play it as much as I have then you can make a fair analysis of it tbh.

The testimonies of others in this thread are clear evidence that this map is imbalanced.
009783232
Posts: 42
Joined: 2008-11-14 03:53

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by 009783232 »

placiddavid wrote:why does everyone want balance? balance does not equal realism.
The map itself if unrealistic, it doesn't make sense that a cities edges include most of the buildings. Iraqi insurgents are most effective in urban combat, yet the vast majority of caches can be attacked from the outside of the city. There is no way for an insurgent team to simultaneously force fighting in the denser parts of the city, and defend the caches.

Therefore, every insurgent team will lose. The only times I have seen opfor win was because of ridiculously bad play by the US (which almost always involves giving insurgents HAT kits).

When this problem is combined with the issue of littlebirds diving from 600 metres killing 2-5 caches a round and 10 intel point shotgun kills, the map becomes impossible for the insurgents.
Outlawz7
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 17261
Joined: 2007-02-17 14:59

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by Outlawz7 »

Specifically areas around the mosque, highlighted below.
No, because Insurgents spawn at the mosque, which will result in either the caches there being impossible to take for US, or ending up with US spawn camping the mosque so they can get to them.
Image
USA-Forever932
Posts: 113
Joined: 2009-02-03 21:23

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by USA-Forever932 »

dtacs wrote:Play it as much as I have then you can make a fair analysis of it tbh.
Well, that's a bit unfair to say that I haven't played the map as much as you have. On the contrary, Karbala happens to be my favorite map in Project Reality. I play it on Chicago Hardcore and any other server as much as I possibly can. The map I mentioned was incredibly stacked towards blufor. Hardcore, no offense to them, had stacked the map with their members. We had a Bravo 3 cache spawn, the difference here is that the insurgents placed their hideouts well, used their mortars effectively and managed defend their caches from rooftops valiantly to the point where littlebirds and tanks were required in order to take the caches down. We lost our tank on the last cache battle at the end of the round to a glitch, however, we had all of the overpowered firepower of the US at our disposal. Yes, the US forces have an advantage outside of the city as they should, being the American military vs a group of insurgents; fighting in the open desert should be a nightmare for any insurgent. However, as should be true, the fight inside the city was a different story. It was totally inaccessible to our tanks and strykers. Even our littlebirds had difficulty because of the vast amount of AA the insurgents had well placed in the area.

The problem with this map is based on the difference between caches spawning inside the city and outside the city. IF the cache spawns outside the city, where the US forces have map boundaries (two of them for b3) and open ground to exploit, the insurgents will have severe difficulty. Inside the inner city, the insurgents have total control and the US forces have nowhere near the required firepower to dislodge them if caches spawn close to each other. Too many caches spawn inside the city, the US team will have extreme difficulty using any of their advantages and the kit advantage they possess will surely be tipped as US forces lose their kits and their asset advantage stripped away as RPGs become more and more common and the minefields thicken.

Yes, the insurgents will be pummeled in outer city engagements and in the open desert, as they should. What insurgent would actually fight the American (Or any blufor military) toe to toe in the open ground? If the insurgents stay within the city and use their technicals properly, all US advantages can be negated and even B3 caches can be defended.

A cache is just a place to draw US tickets away before it gets popped and the next one is used. That's why there are 7 of them. Best solution, don't nerf USA but relocate the caches to make them closer to the inner city. We're capable of mapping caches that can be smashed by tanks and there are plenty of interiors to place caches in.
a0jer
Posts: 80
Joined: 2010-05-17 23:51

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by a0jer »

Okay after much thought and reflection here is my strategy for balancing Karbala.

Step 1, place a mark on the center of your screen.

Step 2, look at your target through binoculars, and use your marker to aim high
http://www.photoshack.com/albums/userpics/23841/binocbs.jpg

Step 3, change to rpg without moving the mouse at all
http://www.photoshack.com/albums/userpics/23841/binocbs2.jpg

Step 4, FIRE!
http://www.photoshack.com/albums/userpics/23841/binocbs3.jpg

Step 5, admire your elite rocketsniper skills.
http://www.photoshack.com/albums/userpics/23841/binocbs4.jpg

This works against any stationary target, with any weapon right up to the fog range. But it takes about 10 seconds to fire the first shot and 5 seconds in between each shot so make sure you are well hidden.
Operator009
Posts: 195
Joined: 2009-09-10 02:21

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by Operator009 »

I say just remove the Hydra LBs and replace them with a single chinook or two trans LBs (I miss trans LBs!)
gaurd502
Posts: 366
Joined: 2008-03-22 14:59

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by gaurd502 »

Just fix the caches so there not on roofs and more are in the city like USA-Forever932 said instead of taking away what Blufor should have the advantage on. When ever I have played as US, once you get in that city its a mess.
Sergeant First Class Guardian
Assistent Squad Leader
1st Squad, 1st Plt, A Company, 1st Bat
508th Parachute Infantry Regiment
US Army
1-1PLT/A/1B/508
Image
ytman
Posts: 634
Joined: 2010-04-22 17:32

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by ytman »

Simply, I see an issue being raised by BluFor's range and firepower advantage (with a couple 'too easy' cache locations <but it balances out, as there are a good amount of 'hard' caches too; it ends up being luck of the draw>). I see this as being what the whole point of INS is. As an insurgent you shouldn't be attacking them (harrasing is different), instead lure them in close where your overwhelming numbers win and cover protects you.

Could the city be expanded? Sure why not.

Could B3 be made slightly easier to defend? Hell yes.

But I think the combination of Tank and LB give the BluFor its required power and should teach RedFor to be more smart and stealthy. Maybe grant only one LB... but you have to realize that vehicle deaths are what really lose BluFor a round.

I think Al Basarah is the most unbalanced INS map, with many more hard to defend/hide caches, larger desert, and an even smaller city region. Karbala is relatively balanced considering.

Technicals to kill Little Birds
Bombcars and Gary to kill a tank/other armor
City Layout allows easy cache defense in center of map
Ladders and RoofTop Access allow for easy defense and observation
boilerrat
Posts: 1482
Joined: 2009-09-02 07:47

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by boilerrat »

ytman wrote:
Bombcars and Gary to kill a tank/other armor
City Layout allows easy cache defense in center of map
Ladders and RoofTop Access allow for easy defense and observation
Quite hard to kill something with 100s of meters of open ground in a giant slow moving dump truck against a target wired on meth looking for you every second.
Image
Rissien
Posts: 2661
Joined: 2008-11-07 22:40

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by Rissien »

Almost killed a Stryker with a single techy yesterday lol. For about five minutes I hugged the stryker staying as close as phyically possible to it while my gunner just shot away at it, he unloaded at least three ammo boxes into it as the stryker had overheated his own and was having trouble hitting us in the first place lol.
Image
MA3-USN Former

クラナド ァフターストーリー
ytman
Posts: 634
Joined: 2010-04-22 17:32

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by ytman »

boilerrat wrote:Quite hard to kill something with 100s of meters of open ground in a giant slow moving dump truck against a target wired on meth looking for you every second.
Of course. This is when you don't expose yourself to the tank. He can't kill what he can't see. Or you can anticipate his return path and ambush him there.

When he pulls in closer you strike with the bomb vehicles.

Tanks should be king of the desert in INS, but when they move in city is when they lose.
boilerrat
Posts: 1482
Joined: 2009-09-02 07:47

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by boilerrat »

ytman wrote:Of course. This is when you don't expose yourself to the tank. He can't kill what he can't see. Or you can anticipate his return path and ambush him there.

When he pulls in closer you strike with the bomb vehicles.

Tanks should be king of the desert in INS, but when they move in city is when they lose.
They don't go in the city.
Image
Trooper909
Posts: 2529
Joined: 2009-02-26 03:02

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by Trooper909 »

I liked the old asset layout of the map alot better.With all the long range firepower I hardly see infantry at all now bar the one rope ninja that kills the cache wile the tank LB's strykers and crows stop us from spawning.

Was perfectly fine with the old US main and the apachi tbh.Errr maybe not the old main as for bad teams it was a problem.
Pronck
Posts: 1778
Joined: 2009-09-30 17:07

Re: Karbala: Strategies for balancing the hardest map for Insurgents.

Post by Pronck »

The best way to win the round Karbala is to capture and control all important keypoints near the city (New Game mode suggestion?). So place you AA Guy with 2 sappers and a techy at the H2/3 Bridge, ambush north and south of the US Main, and mine all entrances near the city and let your insurgents defend over there. But because of the lack of teamwork, people on mumble and proper assets for the insurgents it is almost impossible to do. I will post a picture of the map soon with the important keypoints, and where I like to see more buildings and vegetation.

Although I like to see a kind of transport helicopter instead of one of the LBs, because when you have immobiled the US, they have no chance of getting into the city at all.
We are staying up!
Locked

Return to “Maps”