did you hate APCs? or otherwise love it?

[Hitman.2.5]

HEAVY cavalary.

Its annoying when people use APCs as tanks

i prefer trasnport trunks, i

i prefer board shorts

[HAAN4]

give me an APC on mumble, myself in an infantry squad and wonderful things happen.

not joking, but can you make me a tuturial? i mean, teaching people around to play the PR whict the gameplay is to be.

whatever just don't try to make the game to beta testers team, since they are REAL diciplined guys, how are't the ones i gonna to see in PR comun servers. indeed.

i personal don't belive in APC, it's like comunism the ideia is good, but don't works.

why? because it's paper, and papper and armor are diferent things, copy?

[Hitman.2.5]

there are already some mech inf guides in the guides section of the forum

jiggys mech inf guide

[Rudd]

Jiggy's guide is pretty good, I'll record a round of mech inf if I get a chance

[Sirex[SWE][MoW]]

Okay first of it exists APC and it exist IFV. Not the same thing. Not used the same way.
Secondly, to be blunt most of you guys don't know proper mechanized infantry tactics and believe that the whole army concept is to protect the worst combat unit, the infantry man. In real life it totally the opposite, the infantry supports the IFV which supports the tank. Tank always have highest priority, not the lowly infantry man.

Consider here that the IFV is a combat unit that can instantly engage enemy light and heavy armor with an automated cannon and lots of ammo. It has high speed and can move large distances operationally and tactically while still being light enough to cross troublesome terrain and not get stuck. It is armored and will defeat small arms fire and HE ammunitions. Has a reasonable price.

Then we have infantry. Slow, lowly armored, often take time to setup to engage armor and is very static while engaging, will suffer casualties to anything, very cheap.

Yes i totally see the logic of the IFV being their to support the infantry and giving them a comfy ride...

Back in .87 were good times when I still played on my "ghost-recon" account.....................

But on-topic, I really, really hate APCs. They never respond to my requests for transport or fire-support. And when playing against them, it is just not right. We were defending a building, were in a heavy firefight with a enemy squad. A LAV drives by, starts shooting HE all over the place and everybody was dead. Luckily I am very skilled in driving bombcars, and taking out enemy armor. (I took out a merkava once from above with a bombcar, that was hilarious)

But luckily there are still some good old crewmen to support me, so I am not sure if hate it or love it.

Well i don't even.
First off a LAV is an IFV. This is facts, checkout US Army classification. Thus it is not an APC. So an IFV killing of an entire squad with it's superior autocannon (compared to a tank that can only fire once every 3-5 seconds compared to the IFV that can fire up to 30 rounds in the same amount of time) with HE ammunition to kill you is doing exactly what it should be doing.
Again the main objective with IFV is to kill enemy infantry and other threats to tanks, not to ferry grunts, the grunts is simply an assets that the IFV has at its disposal.


I will repost and old post of mine since it is relative here.

"Okay i see a lot of uninformed unsupported opinouns thrown around here, so i will try to clear something out.

1. There is a difference between an APC and an IFV and their respective uses. The first one is a mobile bunker with an added machingun the other one is a minitank with completary support infantry.

2. Mechanised infantry does not equal IFV supporting infantry, it equals the opposite which is infantry supporting the IFV. That is a very big difference.


An APC squad should use the APC as a mobile bunker and fast taxi vehicle, in engagment it should only be used to cover with its HMG from afar out of engagment range from enemy LAT. Actaully i would be in favor of using APC as dedicated ferry vehicle with ability to recover infantry from hotzones which a truck can't, also that it got offroad capability. This is more inline of what the avreaged Joe picture of mechanised infantry is.

An IFV on the other hand is a offensive weapon with a respectable main automated cannon that has it's irl streangth of being nimbler, which means that it can move more agile in broken terrain like forrest compeared to a tank, and got their completarry infantry. In my military service my Platoon Leader (rank Lieutenant) estimated that atleast 50% of the targets they spooted where spotted by the infantry in open hatch mode and atlesat only 50% was spotted by the vehicle crew. This is actually one of the primary mission for the mechanised infantry, observe enemys and report in to the Crew chief in open hatch mode.

A main use if IFV in mobile warfare is that it's smaller size and being more agile allows it to cost effective fight mainly infantry, and tanks in forrest by ambushing and moving around. Do not interpert ambush as defensive, you can be very offensive and still use ambush, or more like manouriver around the enemy and getting in the flanks and behind them, Here the infantry should be used as observers or as a stationary firepoint, the infantry dismount move forward with their LAT ready and act as a mobile firebase that can report target and kill targets of oppertunities.

The paradox here is that the actuall biggest threat to a IFV is infantry with LAT in broken terrain (since IFV has armorue that is vounrable to LAT even in front compeard to the heavy amroru of a tank), then the IFV needs dismoputed infantry support. By dismounting it's infantry and having them move infront of the IFV to spot and kill enemy LAT gunners or camoflagued AFV.

So in short IFV infantry uses are:

1. Observer from unhatch mode and report targets to the wagon cheif.

2. Clear out dangerous broken terrain from enemy threats to the IFV (includes urban terrain).

3. Act as a anchor defence or a anchor offensive fire unit that the IFV can swarm around and using it's mobility while the infantry provide security in their firesector.

Use of IFV is to assaulting on a big scale and having the capability to deal with threats that tanks have problem with, like broken terrain, forrets, urban terrain, and being cost effective. For really big infantry duties you have APC and heavy motorised infantry to use, not IFV infantry, since theres a big difference in endurance between a standard 12 man squad and the smaller 6 man sqaud that usually is standard in IFV.

So the wording. dtacs: "No, they can not. I tend to find that with the increased firepower the Bradley and BMP on maps like Silent Eagle tend to become fire support vehicles or tankhunters instead of their infantry-carrying nature (plus on Kashan, mechanized doesn't work because there isn't cover which infantry need after they dismount)."
Is wrong since the poster has misunderstood the nature of mechanised infantry warfare for IFV.

To prove my point i was a Squad leader over a IFV squad, one driver, one gunner, me Officer, and one LAT + rifelmens. And when we were in danger i orderd dismount, then we the ifnantry moved coutuisly infornt with LAT fire ready and the IFV 50 meters behind us. We saw a tank, called halt on the IFV, the tank charged from right ot left never saw us. And then our IFV came up and killed it in the back.

And for the critizism i am going to recive i would like that you present evidence in some form, i have 11 month mechanised infantry training so i won't accept that some convertet vanilla bf2 just say "nuuohh you re wrong!!one!"."

[BloodBane611]

I think you make the assumption that what is true in real life is true in PR. In real life, LAVs are never (or only very rarely) used to carry squads around the battlefield, except some reconnaissance troops. In PR they are the USMC's only form of ground transport on Muttrah/Jabal, meaning that their use as transport vehicles is sometimes necessary for success.

[Sirex[SWE][MoW]]

I think you make the assumption that what is true in real life is true in PR. In real life, LAVs are never (or only very rarely) used to carry squads around the battlefield, except some reconnaissance troops. In PR they are the USMC's only form of ground transport on Muttrah/Jabal, meaning that their use as transport vehicles is sometimes necessary for success.

Yes that is true, but that is not what i was talking about here. People said that using an IFV in combat is not mechanized warfare and that is incorrect. I simply cleared out what mechanized infantry and IFV roles are.

Yes still we often have vehicles in abundance in the start of maps, i would still argue that the mayority should be offensive with one or two IFV used as dedicated APC.

[Rudd]

I'm bored so I'll put some tips here

Rudd's guide to working with an APC in separate squads

Tools
The SL radio
Teamchat

Recommended Tools
Commander/Mumble/Teamspeak

General Principles

Use all the tools at your command
KISS - KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID
Give your task stages
Keep talking but do not waffle
Responsibility

Use all the tools at your command

why are you even in a mech inf squad?

Speed - advancing AND RETREATING (never forget that last one) quickly
Ammo - 4 ammo boxes, after each engagement don't forget to reload
Firepower - the APC isn't there to kill things for you, your squad isn't there to kill stuff for the APC, you are there to kill things together. APC vs APC is a fight either can win, APC + LAT vs APC is a one sided contest that you can't fail to lose and must not fail to use.
Protection - got a man down suppressed by a SAW? the big metal thing can block bullets for your medic to grab the man and heal him safely INSIDE THE APC
Kits - The APC allows you to adapt to any situation, need AT? need Marksman? the APC is here for you.

KISS - KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID

if you haven't worked with the other players before you cannot bombard them with complicated sentances, short sentances with universally understood words are best.

Never use a paragraph when a sentance could have done the same time

Give your task stages

too many squads hop in and APC then charge off behind the enemy flag and just get TOWed

Instead of going from flag Alpha straight to flag Bravo, break your journey down in to at least 3 stages, especially on maps like qwai where a LAT could be behind any corner.

Advance, stop, dismount, scout, listen, remount, advance, repeat.

this strategy sacrifices a small amount of speed for saftey and prepared firepower

Keep talking but do not waffle

THIS IS WHERE A VOIP APPLICATION WORKS BEST

the leaders of each squad should keep up a chatter to inform everyone of risk areas, friendly units that are nearby (to avoid FF), to remind men of their duties if they aren't focused, when you look around a corner, instead of just sitting there or moving on, actually TELL everyone the corner is clear, its 2 words, it wastes no time, but it pays dividends as you are telling the squad that the corner is clear and they can focus more on other risk areas.

Mumble works best for this in the public arena, teamspeak is ok if its just the main players in channel.

Thanks to the SL radio weapon, you can quickly mark contacts in approximate locations, use it often!

Responsibility

Ever been in the kashan bunkers and the defending squad is constantly running around from entrance to entrance instead of assigning defensive positions to each player?

well I have, this is bad, it creates temporary holes in your awareness, it prevents your men being able to fire quickly, the same kind of logic applies to a dismounted mech inf squad on the move, generally the vehicle watches the front, the infantry watch the back and sides, unless there is a significant AT threat, then the squad will split the sectors a bit more.


Conclusion

An APC is a powerful asset
An infantry squad is a powerful asset

an APC and infantry squad together is quite frankly the most powerful thing ingame apart from the strike aircraft.

Just remember it takes two to tango, you have to talk to eachother, you have to stop thinking of yourselves as insular entities, you are one team, whenever one of the team suceeds, you all suceed when one of you fail, you all fail

[killacure2]

I think that APC's, like sniper kits, are often misused. This does not mean they should be taken out/modified.

I distinctly remember one of the loading screen tips being something about letting a squad walk 2 minutes from a hot LZ. This principle applies to APC's too. Their job is to get the squad the majority of the distance, and let them off in a safe area, not to drive them all the way into a firefight.

[HAAN4]

Rudd, you make a quite good simple tuturial, i kwon APCs tatics and mec infantry, but it is always good to kwon point's of views of other estrategist, i learn some things, and liked especial the part of KISS, since i using KISS more and more time.

i belive in other shiet that kiss.

A complex Things is one stuff created by many simple things.

like

Advance, stop, dismount, scout, listen, remount, advance, repeat.

but even trough you are a efective Mec Inf, some heavy cav will always stop this party unless a heavy AT is shoot. Is that why i always when i am commander make tanks go frist and after APC,

still you not ablle to convice me the APC is a unstable fithing force, because there are some units in game that can kick they *** prety easy. like MBT, i prefer heavy cav, but i would use APCs in the think and deploy game mode i sugestend has long i find proper crew and infantry squad to stick then to it.

but has a military lover, i beguin to thick, if a APC have no match to MBT, and APC still a ''tank'' what means he is weak in urbam fithing, the only good place to deploy a APC is in a Jugle or Swap or even better a afibios assault, what means he is not a so versatile unit. in a desert or a plain a MBT will always prevail agaist APC, and since croops are just like plains all courtys have croops then all coutry have ''free plains'', i still thick APC whichtout a TOW is a sin, exactly because of it.

you main thick just get a TOW to all APC, well then we have shiet light tanks, again a good ideia but like comunism don't works.

hoever thacks for the tuturial, kwonloge is power always, i will use thise tatic in jugle warfare like Yamalia ,

[mangeface]

Yes apcs are used for transport, on maps like Kashan if the helicopter is down, you need to try to get a ride in an apc.

500m is not transporting troops into battle. Once into battle, the apcs do act as light tanks and do support infantery. If squadleaders would use the radio more, or call an apc for an hot evac, they would do a better job at it.

Well, how about when the good SLs on mumble call for support and don't get it? I've had that happen oh so many times while playing.

[John-117]

I don't mind them, I had an epic round today with some guys and we all played as a squad. (back to the question). APCs can play a critical role in the game, from providing long range support to cover the AA guys or just transporting a squad. All you really need is a good squad leader and a non retarded squad and everything works together.

While on the other hand a good squad leader and a retarded squad doesn't end to well for anyone, including the APC driver

[HunterMed]

APCs are the tanks of the little man.

Yea still too often APCs are used as tanks but it got a lot better imo.

[Sirex[SWE][MoW]]

Much of the problem here is the English/American designations. With APC, IFV and the ridiculous word "tank" which only has a limited historic connection and should have been replaced right after ww1. Rest of the world call it armored fighting vehicle or names in that manner. This affect the mindset of the players to a more static bad play style. Same thing with "assault rifle", it is named after a combat phase. It could just as easily been called "delay after counterattack rifle". Totally ridiculous. Normal countries call it automatic (loading) carbine.

Like in Sweden we don't have the designation APC, we have "armored tracked wagon (APC) PBV302A/PBV401" (wagon is the universal name for army none car vehicles), "Infantry cannon wagon (lightly armoured, tracked, good cannon) ikv 91", "combat wagon (tank)", "combat vehicle 9040 (IFV)", "armored terrain car (APC/Utility vehicle/mortar transport/ATGM/Recon) Patgb 203A", "tracked wagon (APC with superb terrain going capabilities/utility vehicle) Bv 308/ Bv 206". Names that tell you what it is for vehicle, what is it purpose? Is it armored? Is it tracked? Does it have transport capabilities?

Look at the Russians, much more effective and not crippled by static designations. BMD "Combat Vehicle of the Airborne". BTR "armoured transporter", BMP "infantry combat vehicle". No damn bradlyes or cavalry fighting vehicle (lol wat?) or other names (like MXXXX which really says nothing) that people have to argue about what their role is. The way Russia has developed different armored fighting vehicle really is commendable, especially the BMP-3M and the BTR-90.

Much more purpose behind the vehicle usages and designations, and overall a more mechanized army. No locked names for things

[milla da killa]

They are a 50-50 for me. I typically avoid them since 9/10 times they get blown up by an IED or AT round and it winds up just killing an entire squad. AT should be a more limited kit, but that's just my opinion.

[camo_leaf]

i love apc's, strykers being the best!

My friend and i just hop onto skype with its fast crisp voice which allows much better driver to gunner com's, and yea really enjoy it

[Cobhris]

I like APCs, but morons insist on using them as light tanks instead of combat transports.

[dtacs]

I like APCs, but morons insist on using them as light tanks instead of combat transports.

I should make a notepad file for the replies to posts like yours, but to quote Celestial;

IFV. Bradleys/BMPs are some of the most versatile weapons in the game. To underestimate their application as light tanks is to ignore their ample armament.

Also, https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... ost1349332

[killonsight95]

i love apc's, strykers being the best!

My friend and i just hop onto skype with its fast crisp voice which allows much better driver to gunner com's, and yea really enjoy it

mumble is better mate, as it allows communication with other squads.

[Cobhris]

I should make a notepad file for the replies to posts like yours, but to quote Celestial;



Also, https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... ost1349332

I'm not saying that you should never use them in this manner, but it bugs me when the team has a ton of infantry stranded at main, and some guy starts up the only APC and leaves after refusing to give anyone rides.