What has happened to PR?

[unrealalex]

I come back after a long hiatus, install PR .91 with excitement and now a few days of playing later I dont want to play again.

Maps without vehicles where you have to walk for 5 minutes because rallies dont exist and FOB's are impossible to create have become very popular it seems.

The players have gone from bad to worse. Constantly spamming main chat with random nonsense and just bein general a-holes in gameplay. Feels like the Call of Duty kids have migrated to PR.

I haven't seen a commander once (in the past few days I must have played at least 10 rounds).

Tanking used to be my favorite thing. Now theres these light armor vehicles that fire Tows at the rate of a semi-automatic pistol and kill tanks faster than I can relay to my gunner their position. I mean seriously, even tank vs tank used to take at least 2-3 shots, but one of these BTR's or whatever they are, killed my full-health tank within 5 seconds of sighting me ( and with hits to the front armor too).

Does anyone else feel this way? I miss the days of .7-.8

[Rudd]

Hi alex, don't forget that most .X0 releases have significant problems at the start, heck .8 nearly made me leave

the maps without vehicles that you are refering to, I'm not sure which those are unless you mean maps like kashan 16 now? I think the idea in a map like that was to try something new tbh, you need to be more specific in feedback like that so we can address problems

come play on the more well regarded servers like TG, there are bad servers out there but our only defence is for players to just leave them alone.

TOWs may have had undesired side effects, this has been well discussed on the forum and thre are a huge number of suggestions on balancing techniques

the best PR experience, as it always has been imo, is the passworded server, which several servers run regularly

and tbh, I downloaded .7 again in order to find out something about operation ghost train for a map I'm working on, and frankly, it felt kind of meh compared to the current .9 gameplay.

the rally point issue is an example of where the players need to conform to PR game dynamics, rather than PR conform to player dynamics. FOBs are easy to build, and they allow you to build defences within a 200m radius, so they are great. Rallies atm are used either 1) to allow players to join your squad who only just joined the server, or 2) when you run away when a fight turns bad.

now tell me, which is more realistic, the 1) and 2) or the old option of the constantly stream of enemies from random locations?

ut one of these BTR's or whatever they are,

BMP-3, sorry mate but I'm afraid thats the nature of AGTMs, you don't have much chance to survive unless its a hit on a strong point. the Bradley has a magazine of 2 TOWs, so try teaming up with a bradley when your doing armour, this also gives you great bonuses in your abilities to transport, arm and support infantry squads which are the primary capping power ingame.

There are changes that I did not like in every single release of PR, but most of them managed to change my mind when I saw the benefits in gameplay ingame.

[dtacs]

Its simply the way PR is going, the DEVs make it for themselves, the public is just here for the ride. If they believe that tanks on 1km maps are a good idea, then so be it.

There are alot of things in PR that have made the game significantly worse, personally I believe that the new rally point system is a negative change, but alas, your complaints will fall on deaf ears.

I say this not in the manner that we should be getting heard more, but completely the opposite, if threads like this which seem to pop up every now and then want to be ignored by those in charge, thats completely fine.

[unrealalex]

[quote=""'[R-CON"]Rudd;1388670']Hi alex, don't forget that most .X0 releases have significant problems at the start, heck .8 nearly made me leave

the maps without vehicles that you are refering to, I'm not sure which those are unless you mean maps like kashan 16 now? I think the idea in a map like that was to try something new tbh, you need to be more specific in feedback like that so we can address problems

come play on the more well regarded servers like TG, there are bad servers out there but our only defence is for players to just leave them alone.

TOWs may have had undesired side effects, this has been well discussed on the forum and thre are a huge number of suggestions on balancing techniques

the best PR experience, as it always has been imo, is the passworded server, which several servers run regularly

and tbh, I downloaded .7 again in order to find out something about operation ghost train for a map I'm working on, and frankly, it felt kind of meh compared to the current .9 gameplay.

the rally point issue is an example of where the players need to conform to PR game dynamics, rather than PR conform to player dynamics. FOBs are easy to build, and they allow you to build defences within a 200m radius, so they are great. Rallies atm are used either 1) to allow players to join your squad who only just joined the server, or 2) when you run away when a fight turns bad.

now tell me, which is more realistic, the 1) and 2) or the old option of the constantly stream of enemies from random locations?



BMP-3, sorry mate but I'm afraid thats the nature of AGTMs, you don't have much chance to survive unless its a hit on a strong point. the Bradley has a magazine of 2 TOWs, so try teaming up with a bradley when your doing armour, this also gives you great bonuses in your abilities to transport, arm and support infantry squads which are the primary capping power ingame.

There are changes that I did not like in every single release of PR, but most of them managed to change my mind when I saw the benefits in gameplay ingame.[/quote]
Thanks for the response man. I was half expecting a response like "QQ more".

I havent been able to get into the TG server as its always full at 62/64.
The maps without vehicles are those skirmish modes I think? Theres no vehicles and thus you cant drop supply crates and build an FOB, and rallys have become a thing of the past so everytime you die you have to walk for 5 minutes.

The BMP-3 is it? I'm talking about the light armor with a TOW like missile launcher on Gaza Beach. Took out my tank with 2 missiles launched almost consecutively (1-3 seconds apart). Tanks used to be something to fear and be hard to kill, they used to be the alpha male of the battlefield and now this =/ Epic tank battles used to be so fun, getting the drop on someone didnt mean you were gona win the fight and now it seems like just that. Sure PR has always tried to be realistic but never this much, to the point where it destroys gameplay.

I mean all these changes could be ok in a non-pub environment but when youre just playin whatever server you could get into, and only 1-2 squads on your team can be considered a good squad (voip, officer kit, sticking together, etc), youre not gona have a good time with these new changes.

Rally points were fine back then, there was nothing wrong with them as they could easily be overrun, and now they're used to occasionally let one dead member of the squad to catch up. Now often times squad leaders don't even get the officer kit anymore.

[quote="dtacs""]Its simply the way PR is going, the DEVs make it for themselves, the public is just here for the ride. If they believe that tanks on 1km maps are a good idea, then so be it.

There are alot of things in PR that have made the game significantly worse, personally I believe that the new rally point system is a negative change, but alas, your complaints will fall on deaf ears.[/quote]
It's a shame. PR used to be a game I could play all day and not get angry or bored and now its just.....not fun.

[Wraith]

I subscribe to PR forums in RSS so I can get a good rundown of what's happening. The main thing that is discouraging me from playing right now is the massive number of windows 7 issues I see scrolling across my screen. I may try ARMA II once I get a new graphics card.


As for the Game development. I can attest that there is a massive amount of player, tester and yes, dev ideas that go into making the game. It's easy to sit on the forums or in game and complain about servers and how they are run. One of the reasons the game went to a system of licensing servers was to deal with idiots in pubs. If you have an issue with the server take it to the server admin, they all frequent these boards.

[dtacs]

It's a shame. PR used to be a game I could play all day and not get angry or bored and now its just.....not fun.

Then maybe PR just isn't the game for you anymore mate, its the unfortunate reality that happens with lots of games for lots of different people. I want to play ARMA 2 since its an awesome game, but I just find myself more interested in PR since its more accessible. Maybe you've just outgrown PR and need something else? Remember, the game evolves and grows too.

But on the other hand, the game may very well become exactly what you want it to be in the future, what with PRV and PRA coming out.

[Eddiereyes909]

Alex, I sometimes feel the same way. I've started playing after about a year and half, and I, like you, miss .75.

I have had amazing games since I've returned, but have also had horrible games. Then again, this is how PR has always been, not every round is amazing, and not every round is horrible. I honestly think that 1 great game in 3 makes up for it.

Yeah, there are problems, but there are always problems. Just keep at it.

[PLODDITHANLEY]

I agree with the above, that elusive awesome round does make up for the more 'average' game play whatever may cause it.

In searching for that good game I've found the time of day has a big effect, late in the evening on Euro servers seems better, and of course server choice, on certain servers I join you see all kinds of crazy stuff squads with inf and assets mixed up, locked 2 or 3 man squads, meaning you've got no where to join.

These days I've become far more brutal, last night for example I joined a Muttrah battle as MEC, no FOBs except one secret one (no assets or AA pls), all the team pushing for docks, and to top it off a mega teamstack, it looked certain to be a quick no fun round so bye bye.

My advise would be stick with it try the mumble events, try the TG PW nights, but be ready for the dreaded SM kick, hell you've even got PRT on the horizon.

To agree with the OP, TW seems less frequent where K/D win at all costs kiddies seem alot more frequent.

[obZen]

I approve of the new Rally System, but I hate TOWs and I hate how ridiculously easy it is to shoot down a chopper. I don't know I played before and it seems choppers were more durable, or there were less defences against them, you could do insertions and evacs all over the place if you avoided the AA. Now it seems like anything can take down a chopper in a split second.

[doop-de-doo]

The new changes attempt to enforce proper management of resources. I've seen the situation you spoke of where you are stranded without transport and a rally is not available. This usually involves squads who have not taken care of their transports. Many squads will drive off and abandon their vehicles. After a few repetitions of the above, there is nothing left. Poor management. If there is no FOB nearby, then that again shows that the team is not able to manage its assets properly, or is losing badly.

As far as player quality, there will always be times where a majority of them are not best. In that case, I usually wait for a better round. The team will probably lose no matter how well I try to play.

I have also noticed that commanders are hard to come by. Good commanders are even rarer. I know from my own experience that, when I join a round in PR, my intention is to participate in the combat, not try to manage squads as CO. I just don't have the patience at the time. In a way it's good. If commander was too enjoyable, we'd get a lot of idiots trying to be CO. I know from vBF2 how annoying that tends to be.

[Leopardi]

The players have gone from bad to worse. Constantly spamming main chat with random nonsense and just bein general a-holes in gameplay. Feels like the Call of Duty kids have migrated to PR.

Indeed, I used to play on tacticalgamer server and had many great games but even that place has become unplayable now. Kids blocking runways with supply crates because you "stole" their plane, but it's ok that they do it because they are friends with admins, then talking shit about you in his squad to an admin who kicks you without a reason.

[Spec]

Do something against it. I'm not an admin at a PR server, but I am and have been administrating other game servers, and what admins want is information. Go to their forums and tell them who these kids are and what exactly happened. Back if off with screenshots of chat and stuff if you can. Maybe it doesn't help, but chances are it will.

[nicoX]

I felt like this too, now I enjoy it more than ever. Don't ask others to be commander or SL, do it yourself

[PFunk]

Join a clan or the PRT, collect a group of like minded friends who all play together and who click when in a server together, decide which servers you like most, get friendly with other clans, have a ridiculously long Xfire friends list just so you can find people to play with and then you can have better rounds.

Some of my best rounds have been working for a good commander on a bad BLUFOR team on Karbala in a 4 man Crow Humvee strike team taking down caches surgically after staking things out for half an hour at a time and making your move, all with guys I've spent months playing with in the PRT and public PR.

Friends are your best bet period. Good servers can't replace what its like to play with likeminded people who you know and who you can more importantly TRUST. Playing together over time makes your straight up experience better. Reliable friends means the exhausting serach for a good squad with direction is almost a forgotten concern and then you can focus on the map, the CO if there is one, and the quality of play in general.

At the end of the day PR is a team game, so rather than complain that the team isn't there on the server, bring the team with you to the server and you and your friends will have a better time of it.

I'm a PRT brat. I've made all my best friends through that. That plus a handful good random pubbie friends means I have a good base to build a PR night on. Then when PRT is in season I'm guaranteed at least some decent team play twice a month plus practice. But get this. I can almost never play PR when I don't have at least one of my PR friends with me. I just can't find it to be much fun. It sucks to SL when you don't have one guy at least who knows how you like to roll.

The way I see it PR isn't your average boot it up and play kind of game. It gives back what you put in and if you make it a serious social centre for your digital time then it'll be good to you no matter what the servers or the devs or the new releases do to you. But just logging on once in a while is like playing in a casino, and you aren't gonna beat the odds usually and get your great game.

[CallousDisregard]

Indeed, I used to play on tacticalgamer server and had many great games but even that place has become unplayable now. Kids blocking runways with supply crates because you "stole" their plane, but it's ok that they do it because they are friends with admins, then talking shit about you in his squad to an admin who kicks you without a reason.

I play on TG about 2-6 hours daily and I have never seen the runway blocked because of asset theft.
I would also mention you can't "Steal" assets on TG unless a CO has assigned them and since there rarely is a CO, theft is very uncommon.
Unless you are playing very early 00:01 -> 13:00 there is always an admin on TS if not in the game to deal with problems like that.
If you see it happening and do nothing about it, like !Report it it admin, then you are part of the problem.
The same applies for somebody taking CO and digging FOBs, it is a team effort and believe it or not, sometimes the people that spend all game running Logi want to get some combat time too. So if you see something that needs to be done, and nobody is doing it, don't wait, do it yourself.

[Sirex[SWE][MoW]]

I can subscripe that if you want good gameplay you have to do it yourself. I am almost always a SQ, often mechanized if i can, and i play with one firend i can trust (Zenarion) then i speak with the rest of the SQ in main chat and they usualy are resposnsive, atleast you get a picture on what squads you can work with and which one you can't. Get a gameplan up, type in mainchat, enforce you will if no gameplay is there. Often i use my team as the main force and my squad as the vital support/flank/assault force in bas gameplay games.

Amoung bad players you often have to force your will through, most common is that differnet squad members are going in differnet vehicles when our squad only needs one, shooting and saing it is unresponsible usually get them to come to their senses. Take time to do briefings, say how you want things, most of the time even bad players will become usefull assets if you recognise that they need help and give them help and briefing. Alos my friend Zenarion usually acts as an seargent and helps getting the squad okay and having one trustworthy member.

And if all fails learn whihc players are good SQ, protip look for HelloKitty, best SQ ever. I am a good commander but since i play wiht my friend i feel that it becomes a bit asocial to play commander then.

[ryan d ale]

PR has only gotten better and better in my opinion.

Sure, I hated a lot of the changes individually but I truely do believe that they build a better game. Again, I mainly play in a clan and don't have too many issues with leading a squad that does whatever I want to do and believe is fun.

My only issues with PR:

Stupidly accurate Tavor with seemingly no or bugged deviation

Light RPG can't destroy or immobilise a humvee (immobilise would be awesome but I don't believe that feature has been made for humvees)

UAV is somewhat frustrating (bugged tearing/chopping sound from it is awful) and useless because you often have no idea where it is even if you zoom the map it's still not specific at all. Can't actively 'tag' targets to appear on map like SL can with RADIO and that makes positions sketchy - also I think the UAV is about to get worse with the 'circle' business but I have yet to watch the demo video.

Never keen on the idea of an MBT vs insurgents.

[Bazul14]

PR has gotten fairly better, even tough i liked the Fools Road in .85 a lot better than now. Some older maps were also awesome. But now there is an accent on teamwork and less lone-wolfing. A squad or team without logistics is doomed to fail. As for ins vs. MTB; it is awesome, especially if u go ins. Get an organized and disciplined RPG squad(4-6 men) and wait up in a good spot where the MTB can not run away too quick. I did it twice so far, and i will get an Xfire vid on how to do it.

[BlackMagikz]

i can see where this is going , the problem with PR is the BF2 engine. It is spammy at heart and the DEVs try and make it something it is not. So far it is pretty good considering the engine , as for players well thats the genepool's fault.

PR to a certain extent does facilitate spam to a degree and people who want to spam , do it in a different way then what they usually do.

To solve this problem , a new engine is needed. Which is coming in a couple of years down the track.

a nice little explanation

[Tartantyco]

It's not the game, it's the players.

Players don't want to command. Players don't want to squad lead. Players don't want to build FOBs. Players basically don't want to do anything other than run around and shoot things. There's several options available to these people, PR isn't one of them.

What you have to understand is that in order to create the gameplay experience that PR offers you will have to make sacrifices, there will be severe limitations and failure must be punished. The reason why you have to walk vast distances if you don't build FOBs is because if you didn't then there wouldn't be any point in FOBs. The reason why the maps are big is so that you can maneuver around it, you can choose fight or flight, you gain strategic and tactical options with the bigger maps.

PR gameplay is dependent on teamwork. When the team doesn't work together they get punished for it. Don't blame the game for what is obviously the players' fault.