removing maps

[rough77]

does something like a "map poll" exsist?
sooo many people are missing maps like "EJOD" "ghost train" "assault on mestia" etc.

"too small for the new PR"

nobody has yet answered this question: why can't the players (the server admins) deceide which maps to play? I think PR is the only game in the world where maps are OFTEN removed by the DEVs.

to create a PR map... hours, days, MONTH I guess - and then it's being removed caused by a new version?

I can't understand that philosophy and I'd be glad if you could tell me --->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3_85GXsKqk

[Rudd]

nobody has yet answered this question: why can't the players (the server admins) deceide which maps to play? I think PR is the only game in the world where maps are OFTEN removed by the DEVs.

because they increase the size of the download, because they degrade the quality of the mod since the gameplay has moved beyond them, because no one has decided to help the PR mod by auditing them to current PR quality levels; get it yet? PR is constantly evolving, the fat has to be cut away to keep the mod light.

[rough77]

nah, I can't really accept your arguments.
"siege at ochamchira" - a PR 0.91 map. a map where you have to cross the WHOLE map to fight in a very small area. so it's not about map-size e.g.,this map could be 1/4 in size and the gameplay would still NOT differ.

asad khal: played the map very often @ different servers --> 90 % it's a fight in the area of MANSION! that's it!

so instead of probably increasing the map size or make a 2nd version (like muttrah) - you delete 'em.
PR is great - but it's still a game, so it's supposed to be FUN. the gameplay, the weapons, the vehicles... all that stuff always became better and better, it's a GREAT game! but some REALLY good maps are missing and I'm not the only one with that opinion.

so why don't you start a poll like "best map of 0.91" or "more insurgent maps?" something like that to know what the community wants?

[Rudd]

"siege at ochamchira" - a PR 0.91 map. a map where you have to cross the WHOLE map to fight in a very small area. so it's not about map-size e.g.,this map could be 1/4 in size and the gameplay would still NOT differ.

SaO was trying to do something different with a defensive scenario, if it didn't work out it can be changed, but its also the most detailed industrial area I've ever seen in a game.

so instead of probably increasing the map size or make a 2nd version (like muttrah) - you delete 'em.
PR is great - but it's still a game, so it's supposed to be FUN.

Modding Tutorials - Project Reality Forums <- help us then if your so good at it

The mod is free, so theres no way to offer huge downloads, and you clearly haven't got a clue about mapping if its so easy top increase the map size or make a 2nd version, especially considering the primary mapper is currently busy IRL. (Irontaxi, one of the best mappers BF2 has seen so far)

if you still don't accept my arguements here is your refund

[rough77]

a very simple input: ask the community you're developing for/with, which maps are liked and which are not. for sure you're godlike cause you're a modder...

a poll costs that much:

[Rudd]

that would be fine if this was a democracy rather than a mod forum

favourite map polls have already been done, reference them

like a map so much? audit it

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... audit.html

or sure you're godlike cause you're a modder...

no, I'm a phlebotomist who in his spare time took the time to do the tuts that men smarter than me made, and then took the time to actually work on something for the mod.

[rough77]

that would be fine if this was a democracy rather than a mod forum

yeah - you're right! it's YOUR project and I'm just participating, sure thing (no sarkasm). the results would only be a "direction sign" you can follow - or not.

[Rhino]

Since this is a topic of "why do you guys remove maps" there are a few quite simple reasons.

1. Size of the Map itself and increase on the build size. We can only have so much mbs in each installer, the more we split the build up into separate installers the more confusing it gets and the more unlikely people are going to download the mod epically if the overall file size increases overall leading to less people playing the mod, not good.

2. Maps get old gameplay wise (and also quality wise but not so much recently), you can only play a map so many times before it gets boring. Some maps last better than others ye but most people find maps get boring and dont want to play them. There are literally some maps that never get played and then what's the point of having them in the mod?

3. The gamplay of the map gets "outgrown" by the mod. One classic example of this is Muttrah City v1 (Not the current v2). To make sure there's no confusion here, here's the minimap of of muttrah v1:


In v0.3 when it was first released it was by far the best map but by v0.5, it was really showing its age as things had been changed in the mod such as chopper engine warmup times which resulted in the MEC being able to walk onto docks from there main before the choppers could get there, AT missile speed increased drastically which meant loads of choppers where getting shot down so easily and many other little bits like that. Overall the map wasn't so fun to play and it didn't work like it did back in v0.3 where you could have really good games. The map was simply too small for the new gameplay of the mod and was literally, out grown, as such it was removed and eventually replaced by Muttrah City v2



Now if you really have a huge problem with this yourself there is something YOU, or anyone esle here who has time on there hands can do about it!

Its quite simple really, edit the old maps, maybe even some new maps that aren't in the mod to work with the most recent version of PR and crate a un-official map pack which if its good enough as in it has the gameplay we like in PR etc, we will support it.

There are loads of tuts here which tell you how to audit maps and get them working in PR etc. All you need to do is read though them and put some work into making it happen: Modding Tutorials - Project Reality Forums
Your main tutorial of interest would be this one here, although a little outdated, most of the stuff in there still applies just things like the init.con settings etc have changed: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... audit.html

NOTE: Make sure you get permission from the mapper that you can audit there map and put it into a map pack.



Alternative you can do one better than "bringing back old maps", and learn how to map and make something completely new? Although yes this takes much longer, if your map is good enough it will be included in the mod.
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... pping.html
That tutorial list has all you need to know on how to start mapping



Its really in your hands to make it work, we are far too busy to make map packs etc.

[sylent/shooter]

just wondering if a moderator can lock this thread as (from a fellow mappers point of view) this is kind of rude to be saying, that and the discussion isn't going anywhere. Thanks

sylent

[badmojo420]

rough77 you gotta ask yourself, is it more important for the developers of PR to spend their time working on reviving older maps, or make totally new maps that we've never seen before?

There's also the fact that some of the mappers who've made those older maps, might not even be part of the PR community or don't have the editor files anymore.

You can't blame the developers as a group for not maintaining older maps. That's something to bring up with the individual mapper of the specific map you want revived. The PR devs have said over and over that they'll gladly include older maps, but only if they're upgraded to work with the current version of PR. So, if the original mapper doesn't want to polish his creation, to have it included in new versions, there is little the developers can do about it.

Also, I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think the devs allow server admins to run any maps they want. Old or new. It's just that if servers started throwing in maps that most people don't actually have anymore, people would start complaining about having to download extra maps. Server admins tend to want to make it as easy as possible for people to join their server.

to create a PR map... hours, days, MONTH I guess

I'd like to see anyone create a good quality map in under a month.(without working 15hr days for the whole month) Even a 1km map. It would be my guess that most 2km+ maps would take close to a year to get to a point where it can be released.

Mapping is like developing a video game, in the sense that it's possible to create the worlds greatest game, that has full details in ever aspect. But, the problem is, it wouldn't run on anything short of a super computer. So, game designers have to sacrifice things here and there, to streamline it into something usable.

It's the same with mapping, anyone could start in the corner of a 4km map, and put in every little detail, making it the best map possible, with underground subway systems, sewers, full of custom objects, sounds, sky, the whole lot. But, the only problem is that you'd be working on it for 10 years.

My point is that no map is ever complete. It just gets to a point where it's playable and the mapper is happy enough with it to be released. So, I doubt very highly someone who doesn't have a lot of time invested in a map (ie. not the original mapper) would want to spend their time on improving somebody's old map. Because, that's time they could be working on their own map(s). Time is a valuable resource when it comes to editing maps.

[Rudd]

to create a PR map... hours, days, MONTH I guess

after alot of practice and only working part time atm , this is as far as I can get in 3 days, using all teh tricks I've learned so far.

http://a.imageshack.us/img835/6388/previewuc.jpg

[Rhino]

Rudd;1407434']after alot of practice and only working part time atm , this is as far as I can get in 3 days, using all teh tricks I've learned so far.

http://a.imageshack.us/img835/6388/previewuc.jpg

I made Op Snow Storm in under a week (including making custom textures etc), Muttrah City took me 1 and 1/2 years.

The basics of making a map are simple if you know what your doing but the detailing is the time consuming bit.

[ChiefRyza]

The reason PR's maps take so long to make is because of the sheer quality expected from them. Compare PR's maps to any other mods (besides Forgotten Hope 2 which I think has fantastic level design right down to the statics) and you instantly see a huge difference. Also think about how big PR's maps are as well.

At the end of the day also, nobody is getting paid for this, I for one am studying full time and trying to finish a 4km map (and I'm just a wee-little community member)....not the easiest task and most if not all of the DEV's here are in the same boat, having to juggle work etc with making a professional quality piece of work is not the easiest task to undertake.

[rough77]

mumble, team-speak etc. everywhere people talk about the current PR version/the maps. and LOTS of people are missing maps, which always guaranteed intense fighting

how ever: my posting was supposed to be a question + an INPUT. for me PR is the best game in the world, I'm not playing any other online-games anymore.

looking foward to 0.92 & PRV and: I've already tried mapping --> a truck of fail! I've never done any programming etc. - for me it's impossible to create a PR map.

[jaawol]

Another problem is that if there are more maps, you need more servers to put them on or to take servers/server time away from better maps. It can already be hard to find a relatively populated server with a specific map, this would be worse with more maps and the same no. of players.

Sorry i'm not sure that ^^ makes much sense

[billdan]

mumble, team-speak etc. everywhere people talk about the current PR version/the maps. and LOTS of people are missing maps, which always guaranteed intense fighting
.

Maybe it's not the maps themselves they specifically miss.

When people experience nostalgia (i.e. the "good ole days" of .5 or .6) they tend to remember the positive aspects of that experience the best and dim down the negative aspects.

So it's more likely that these people actually miss the gameplay on those maps. But sadly, if we were to take these maps and play them with current features, weapons, gameplay mechanics, the gameplay would be nothing as they remembered-it would be horrible. Therefore in order to be viable, these older maps must be audited/expanded/redone. And the DEV's in this thread have already mentioned why this is not priority and not likely to be done.

[Nebsif]

My only prob about maps is that U removed Mestia, yes it was a 1km map but people would fight on 85% of the map, compared to Gaza or Ochamchira
I also got the feeling Dragon Fly wasnt tested b4 release cuz of all the freezes/lags and a flying corn field somewhere. O.O

[manligheten]

My only prob about maps is that U removed Mestia, yes it was a 1km map but people would fight on 85% of the map, compared to Gaza or Ochamchira
I also got the feeling Dragon Fly wasnt tested b4 release cuz of all the freezes/lags and a flying corn field somewhere. O.O

Mestia was unplayable due to too big cap ranges. The main problem I believe is that all the infantry maps are removed (Tad See, Bi Ming, Op Ghost Train, Sunset City, Road to blablabla, Mestia, 7 gates) without any worthy successors.

[rough77]

The main problem I believe is that all the infantry maps are removed (Tad See, Bi Ming, Op Ghost Train, Sunset City, Road to blablabla, Mestia, 7 gates) without any worthy successors.

word.
and mestia cap-zones could have been adapted...

[Outlawz7]

I also got the feeling Dragon Fly wasnt tested b4 release cuz of all the freezes/lags and a flying corn field somewhere. O.O

Yeah we just let a city map that everyone was anticipating for over 2 years slide past everyone on its release we know it has performance issues and will be or has already been addressed for the next release, give us a break.