What has happened to PR?

[motherdear]

fuzzy you do realise that ingame rallypoints are able to be set after 2 min right ? if you can't learn to retreat when being overmatched ingame then you are doing something wrong. In pr everything is not equal, pick your fights with thought, and retreat and regroup if you are loosing your fight. if you get wiped out that is your own fault on a skirmish map.

[Eddiereyes909]

Where the hell are you people playing?

I'll echo the words of many PR players, but if your playing in a bad server, your going to have a bad game.

[Elektro]

fuzzy you do realise that ingame rallypoints are able to be set after 2 min right ?

I am pretty sure its 10 mins, unless you have a Command Post or a Forward Outpost near you.

[gaurd502]

I think its to for skirmish.

[gazzthompson]

and LMGs are next to useless in CQB

LULWUT

(serious response, LMGs are uberwtfpurerape in CQB)

Also the m16 has the same deviation as all the other rifles so is not "overaccurate" , the rest of what you said i dont care about enough to have an opinion on.

[FuzzySquirrel]

fuzzy you do realise that ingame rallypoints are able to be set after 2 min right ? if you can't learn to retreat when being overmatched ingame then you are doing something wrong. In pr everything is not equal, pick your fights with thought, and retreat and regroup if you are loosing your fight. if you get wiped out that is your own fault on a skirmish map.

Missing the point. My point is rally points would work better as a non-expiring spawn (unless the enemy is to close) so you don't have to respawn at your deployment area, Put it this way, Rallys in skirmish should work like fobs in AAS/INS just a forward spawn point.

This is as simple as I can put it;
Rally points in Skirmish should not expire after 30 seconds, but instead be like the ones in .75/.8

[AfterDune]

This is turning into a rant-thread really... "PR is fucked up", "[blabla] is ridiculous", etc. Discussion about what you think of PR is fine, but you should be mature enough to choose other words to express your thoughts.

[Tim270]

This is as simple as I can put it;
Rally points in Skirmish should not expire after 30 seconds, but instead be like the ones in .75/.8

And your justification for this is?....

Saying it takes too long to walk from the deployment area is not an argument I would accept. Spawning somewhat further from the flag is good. It means winning a fire-fight means gaining ground. Not oh we killed a few guys, too bad they will be back in exactly the same spot instantly all streaming in off a rally point.

[FuzzySquirrel]

And your justification for this is?....

Saying it takes too long to walk from the deployment area is not an argument I would accept. Spawning somewhat further from the flag is good. It means winning a fire-fight means gaining ground. Not oh we killed a few guys, too bad they will be back in exactly the same spot instantly all streaming in off a rally point.

...wow...in .75 rallys were fine but oh no they can't be fine now! We need some sort of justification to get something forces like Hamas and Insurgences already have! A FORWARD SPAWN. I give up. This is proving to complicated to comprehend apparently.

[MadTommy]

To try and get back on point, or at the least what I assume to be the intented question of the thread.

I firmly believe, and have said so on many occations, that PR took a decisive decline when it started to enforce certain forms of play, by means that are disconnected from the atmosphere that PR tries to emulate.

In short, when it went away from 0.5-0,6`s "You can do whatever, but silly stuff will get you killed" to the newfound "YOU CAN ONLY DO THIS; NO FUN ALLOWED APART FROM WHAT WE ALLOW". It went to shit.

Case in point, 1. 0.5`s bashra. Ive yet to see the same teamwork I saw on that map, on public servers, replicated anywhere but the PRT.

It bugs me to the point of no end, that the later incarnations of PR have driven me off. It just lacks that special "sexual intercourse implication yea" effect. And that is a shame, as I firmly believe in the theory that just setting simple, but harsh mechanics in place, will foster great games. Unlike the idea that the game prevents you from doing what you want, based on some idea of how the game should be played like, an idea that was reached by a committee, and then diluted due to the limitations of an engine that never got its much needed turbo.

Hell, I have yet to have as much fun in PR, as I had under 0.5 bashra, 0.6OB bashra. Because that was fun. It seemed that the game understood its limitations, and said, "Here is a more realistic package, and thats about as good as its gonna get, so have at it" instead of the current "Play it like this, or I will clobber you to death with a filing cabinet"

I whole heartily agree. Well put. Its just all taken a bit too seriously... many of the avid posters of this community are such purists of forced teamwork & supposed reality. Fun gameplay has taken a hit.

[Tim270]

...wow...in .75 rallys were fine but oh no they can't be fine now! We need some sort of justification to get something forces like Hamas and Insurgences already have! A FORWARD SPAWN. I give up. This is proving to complicated to comprehend apparently.

No, I understand exactly what you are saying. And I believe that Hamas/Taliban should have their hideouts removed in Skirmish.

[gazzthompson]

I whole heartily agree. Well put. Its just all taken a bit too seriously... many of the avid posters of this community are such purists of forced teamwork & supposed reality. Fun gameplay has taken a hit.

"fun" is very, very subjective.

[MadTommy]

yeah, thanks for that.. its also a 3 letter word.

[Outlawz7]

No one says you can't go back and replay old versions, though I'm not sure if server licenses are required to run old version of PR.

[Celestial1]

In short, when it went away from 0.5-0,6`s "You can do whatever, but silly stuff will get you killed" to the newfound "YOU CAN ONLY DO THIS; NO FUN ALLOWED APART FROM WHAT WE ALLOW". It went to shit.

>>Enjoying PR
>>PR gets more difficult
>>My reaction






Almost everyone in this thread complaining does so without reasoning, instead yelling louder or using more exclamations and question marks to make their point sound more important.
Take a second to think about why the change was made. If you can't see a reason, ask around until you can figure it out. If you believe the change was made in error, or could be compromised to bring back some of the fun that the change took away, speak up and articulate your thoughts in a productive manner. If no one agrees, either back down and realize that you're in a minority that believe this, or find a game that provides that fun you're missing out on; nothing's keeping you playing PR but yourself. And if they do agree, you're helping make the game better, right?

[mat552]

>>Enjoying PR
>>PR gets more difficult
>>My reaction

This is not a good thing to bring into a respectable forum, look at what it did to /v/. I'm imploring you (all of you) right now to leave this on the chans.

Almost everyone in this thread complaining does so without reasoning, instead yelling louder or using more exclamations and question marks to make their point sound more important.
Take a second to think about why the change was made. If you can't see a reason, ask around until you can figure it out. If you believe the change was made in error, or could be compromised to bring back some of the fun that the change took away, speak up and articulate your thoughts in a productive manner. If no one agrees, either back down and realize that you're in a minority that believe this, or find a game that provides that fun you're missing out on; nothing's keeping you playing PR but yourself. And if they do agree, you're helping make the game better, right?

We have spoken up Celestial. What happened was exactly what happened during the rallypoint beta. Those of you who said encouraging things about it were congratulated and agreed with, those of us who were worried what the end result would be were very nearly shouted down to "give it more time" and "play more realistically". As far as backing down as a minority, why? I don't need to give up my beliefs just because they differ from yours, and that of most of the community. Why does what I consider fun mean less than what you do?

I get the general sense when I talk to people, really talk to people, that the fun is starting to come into question. More and more people talk about slogging it out. Really? You have to drag yourself to finish a round? There's a difference between a game being long and a game seeming long, PRs right in the middle for me right now, there are many more rounds than there were in 85, 7, or even 6 where I just altf4 to escape, because I'm so..bored. And I look at the next map, and I know exactly how it will work out, and I'm bored of it in advance.

At the same time, PR isn't even close to its apex. New features are coming in left and right, and they're almost always polished and have a use, it isn't like some mods that add whatever they can code. The UAV is possibly the best example. Here's something the players said they wanted (albeit it took a few versions for the devs to even think about it), and they rolled out a first, functional implementation. It did its job. The players asked for a few more features, which our brilliant devs promptly added. But there are aspects of it we're not likely to see any time soon, even though they fit in with the mod's overall stated goal, because some people disagree on what's fun.

As far as fun goes, if the DEVs were intrested in pure player numbers, we'd be playing a refined version of 5/6 possibly early 7. PR isn't dying by any stretch of the word, but the player base is significantly thinned out, and I don't think most of them left for other games, they left because they weren't enjoying themselves. The mod is significantly more complex now, and will continue to grow that way. This reflects a maturation of the core player base and the dev team.

PR has changed. It's not 2007 anymore. A lot of people said they wanted a lot of things, then once they got them, found out they didn't want them and left. Gaming in this community is tremendously serious business now, for better or for worse. Who knows, in a few versions, perhaps we'll take out voip entirely so that people will maintain comms discipline.

[MadTommy]

Almost everyone in this thread complaining does so without reasoning, instead yelling louder or using more exclamations and question marks to make their point sound more important.

Really? who? where?

Take a second to think about why the change was made. If you can't see a reason, ask around until you can figure it out. If you believe the change was made in error, or could be compromised to bring back some of the fun that the change took away, speak up and articulate your thoughts in a productive manner.

wow thanks for the advice... what 5 year old are you talking to? Because that sounds very patronising.


Over the years I've seen many 'old timers' leave.. normally with the response that its just not fun any more. The whole suite of teamwork/play style forcing alterations have gone too far. Not one taken in isolation is an issue, just the cumulation of them. Over the years many of these changes where made to improve teamwork or remove something that was not up to the standards the team where after.. and they have made a great mod/game.. however recently many have been made in an attempt to force teamwork... this in my opinion has taken away much of the fun.

Examples: (random from my noggin)

Removing the last remaining chopper from Basrah... as it could cause a sound bug. (this map used to have 2 A10s, 2 cobras, 2 lb & 2 black hawks, it was a hoot!)

Removing the ability to use the gun seat without a driver in an APC. Sure soloing APCs is not good... but let the server admins deal with things like this.

Removing maps because they are not 'good' enough, or are too small. Maps that players liked.. and could happily choose to play on or not. Ghost Train for example..

Removing the instant kill from knife kills & head shots.

There is still a lot of fun to be had.... it's just a lot harder to find.. and after a long day at work there are more appealing options than yomping across Silent Eagle playing soldiers.

Don't get me wrong.. i take my hat off to the DEV team.. PR is an amazing mod for BF2, with amazing maps & assets..its just implemented in a fashion that tries to dictate the game style too much.. give us some credit and freedom and we'll choose the servers with good teamwork and PR gameplay. We don't need this dictated to us. I don't think teamwork has improved since 0.5, to me this proves my point, at least for me it does .

[google]

In my opinion, the reason that fun has taken a hit is the extreme focus on teamwork as opposed to squadwork or tactics. In the older versions, as long as you had a good squad, you could still have a really good round. However, now, one is forced to rely on their team in order to have any large scale success. Take, for example, the ticket cost of vehicles. So much pressure is put on those who use assets as if they lose them, the team gets extremely pissed off due to the loss of tickets. If anything, most assets (especially small-scale support ones such as trans helis and APCs) have become liabilities on most maps.

This brings me to my second point, which is that the game is soley about ticket count now.The game really doesn't give substantial incentive for capturing objectives and flags. Kill to Death ratios and the minimization of the loss of assets are the only important thing anymore. It is much easier to just sit on your firebase, with the extremely powerful TOWs and HMGs, than attack. That being said, the new focus on supply lines and Firebases has also limited assaulting options to a degree.

So to do well, a team really needs to work fluidly together extremely well. I'm positive that the introduction of mumble has had a serious effect on these afore-mentioned gameplay changes. This new stress on having a perfect team, is to me, the root cause of team-stacking. People know that when they load in, if their team isn't doing that well, they're likely going to have a crappy game and maybe ultimately lose.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that the game has become un-necessarily hard on players. There are simply too many weaknesses to a team which forces the players act in a defensive and almost boring way. Sometimes I feel as if PR is a job as opposed to a game. If I wanted that kind of experience, I'd go play an MMORPG (lol). PR (for me and my friends at least) certainly exhibits more stalemates and rage-quits than it did in previous versions.

[MikeDude]

Well, I still love PR!

If you buy a game, there is always stuff that you don't like about the game.. If you play this mod, there has to be stuff you are not gonna like ofcourse..

Ive been playing PR since around 0.23 or whatever the version was called. And back then there was also stuff that people didnt like..

Life sucks....
PR is just epic, no better game then PR.. Just go with the flow, and stop saying bad things about the game you love to play..