General Principals in which the art of war resides

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Wicca
Posts: 7336
Joined: 2008-01-05 14:53

General Principals in which the art of war resides

Post by Wicca »

In a revised document, that was published in 1810, Jomini set up a list of general principals that the art of war resided:

the historian Bruno Colson sums them up like this:

(My Intepritation)

I
Take initative in movement
When having momentum, take the initiative to move forward to push the enemy as far back, in terms of flanking one can use the movement to create diversion.

II
Attack the weakest point - the top of a column, the center of a split force or the end of a line.
In an attack, your objective is to kill as many enemies as possible, when attacking a modern army they have drills to react to contact, so this might not be a solid go, but attacking the top of a column, would mean where the least of the enemy forces are able to shoot at you at a given time. Making you less prone to die from the sheer number of bullets coming your way, and giving you more of a chance to get out.

III
If you have the strongest force, attack the two outerpoints of the enemies line.
Having the numbers on your side, will make it easier to envelope an enemy, without cost of your own security, thus creating a chain of moves that will make the enemy either fall back or lose alot of casualties.

IV
Gather your forces before you act.
Regrouping in PR, is a very important thing, when you prepare your attacks, make sure you have the right position before assaulting, and make sure you can call in your forces and make them all attack at the same time.

V
Spread your enemies using fake attacks.
Pretending your attacking somewhere, only to attack at a different location, is a very old tactic, in PR with the equality of players, its probably a good strategy, but i doubt it will have an effect in anything but attacking a compound or a large structure. Where the enemy is manning defensive positions is key here.

VI
Know your enemies position.
Your planning should first and foremost extend from where you have your forces, but you would be a fool if you ignored the enemies positions, and blindly attack, making sure you hit targets, and make use of any weakness in their positions. Is key to winnning, therefor use your scouts.

VII
Make sure you have your troops, in your hand.
Im guessing this has to do with either the organisatory part of warfare, or the psychological, if you dont have control of your forces, your a general without an army, you might look scary, but you cant do any real harm, like patton when he went to Egypt i belive.

VIII
Among the three options - Defensive, Offensive or a combo of the two, always choose the second or the third option.
Cant really say anything but i agree, defending doesnt work without some form of attack, if your enemy is left alone when he attacks, and noone disrupts his plans, what is it to stop him from getting to know your position inside out, and spending as much time as possible to hit you best.

IX
Combine a solid and mobile assault.
In this, its important to have a breaking force, but also to be able to move it, to create momentum. Thus, having a operational plan after the initial attack, of say reinforcing the 1st wave, or pouring troops in where you just punched thorugh comes into effect. Make sure you have a straight and hard attack, followed up by more forces that you can then again converge and divert in more attacks.

X
In difficult terrain, cover your front with small detachment forces.
This is interesting, its easier for a small detachment to engage a larger force in narrow terrain, and thus also they are more easierly commanded, since they have a more direct line of orders. Making units act on their own in such situations are essential in winning them too.

XI
In open ground use the Karree.
The karre formation, is an old anti Cavalry tactic in open terrain, where the musketmenn would fix bayonets and form a "square" of about 3 men deep, and have cannons in the middle. They would fire at the horses with one "line" and have another line have their bayonets in the ground facing upwards in a 60 degree angle. Might not be a good idea to do it now adays :P

XII
Be energetic during pursuit.
In essence, if you have momentum, dont just stand there, get your *** moving

XIII
Build a strong morale.
Having a will to fight, opposed to not, is very important, the russians showed us that during ww1, in which the revolted. Im not a historian, but i belive it was from tire of war.

These are Jominis "infinite" war principals.

I reckon some have been made obsolete by technology. Like the karree formation, but i guess one can interpret it however one may wish. This is just mine.

I will try to use some of these principals in my games. Maybe this can be a Foundation for new squadleaders and commanders, in which they build upon, more experience and tactics for themselfs.

But the greates lesson of all in any war situation, is never repeat histories failure, never do the same mistake TWICE.
Xact Wicca is The Joker. That is all.
Michael_Denmark
Posts: 2196
Joined: 2006-07-10 09:07

Re: General Principals in which the art of war resides

Post by Michael_Denmark »

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As I recall from readings, the generals of the civil war (USA) used Jomini to quite a great deal, resulting in massive infantry casualties, due to the very fact X of his methods was already outdated, when being used literally and not transferred and transformed.

Anyhow,

Its really positive to see posts like this one.

Not that I think all of Jominis principles are waterproof in PR, but then again, what is?
XII
Be energetic during pursuit.
In essence, if you have momentum, dont just stand there, get your *** moving
For the most (although still situational) very true words. I my self has failed on this account more than one time. Sadly.

Still learning though 8-)

XI
In open ground use the Karree.
The karre formation, is an old anti Cavalry tactic in open terrain, where the musketmenn would fix bayonets and form a "square" of about 3 men deep, and have cannons in the middle. They would fire at the horses with one "line" and have another line have their bayonets in the ground facing upwards in a 60 degree angle. Might not be a good idea to do it now adays :P
In regard to the Karee, I think its all about trying to transfer the content of this method and then transform it to PR content, taking the material (players) into account in the process.

For instance like the following example, where questions are used to create a certain thinking-pattern.

--- Example start ---

Q: If the open terrain back in Jominis time applies to open terrain in PR, then what can cavalry back then be in PR?

A: Cavalry is both a movement factor and a hammer factor. In PR there are as minimum 3 factors that can represent the same. 1) The APC, 2) The Attack Helicopter, 3) The Jet fighter

Note: In this example I choose the first option, namely the APC.

So. If the musketmenn back then compared to the musketmenn in PR, those could be the light AT players. The bayonets could be the AT mines or explosive charges and the Cannons could be the Heavy AT kits.

--- Example end ---

Again, the above is not a solution I'm trying to deploy, but only an example of how such an old principle can be used when transferred and transformed into the PR universe.

***

Great post.

Should be moved to the Commander forum.
Define irony. A bunch of guys playing PR year after year. A game teaching initiative as the prime mover.
However, in regard to EA, these guys never took the initiative.

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We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven,Tomorrow... http://gametactic.org/pr
L4gi
Posts: 2101
Joined: 2008-09-19 21:41

Re: General Principals in which the art of war resides

Post by L4gi »

Simple=better. All the talk about formations and stuff make my head hurt. :(
Dai
Posts: 36
Joined: 2010-07-14 02:22

Re: General Principals in which the art of war resides

Post by Dai »

The Karee can be transformed to this:

Have a squad, or multiple squads, facing in all directions. Have the HAT/LAT in the center of the formation to respond to Armored threats, and then the rest of the squad spread around it.

It's, quite simply, this: Put your heavy hitters in the center, put those who keep the enemy at range next, and finally those who do the proper fighting at the front forming a wall of lead.

His princible was, in his time: Form a wall of lead with the first line, a wall of steel with the second, a reinforcement line with the third, and the cannons are your artillery.

An example is defending a position upon a hilltop behind the enemy's lines. Say you have two squads. You take the HAT and LMG at the crest of the hill, or better yet, an HMG and TOW. You then put those with scoped rifles in a ring around these deployable positions, with the majority concentrated towards where you expect the attack. Then the unscoped and shotty wielders in a ring around them, spaced farther out. Thus, you are now defended from all directions, your heavy weapons are behind a literal wall of bodies, and your men are able to engage at the distance that is best for them and their weapon.

One bit that I'd like to add: Throw enough lead out there and you're bound to hit something. Thus, shoot where you think the enemy is.
Bunnyman
Posts: 31
Joined: 2010-12-16 15:06

Re: General Principals in which the art of war resides

Post by Bunnyman »

The Carre I think means 'meat' or body, I think it originates in late medieval Spanish pike and musket formations. The 'squares' formation was used almost throughout the musket period, Napoleonic era etc. I think tactically it resembles the older medieval chevron formations, the 'pointy' bits were good for penetrating the enemy lines and the 'inner' bits were great for drawing in enemy forces and having them attacked oin two flanks.

It can also be transferred to using squads separated by a few hundred metres forming killzones between them. If you add AT to the ingredients you can pretty much take on anything. Apart from mortars lol
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WithoutPurpose
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Re: General Principals in which the art of war resides

Post by WithoutPurpose »

All easy said, but hard to get this in practic unless you're on a good server and you have an alpha-minded commander.
Also; divide and conquer :P
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Wicca
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Joined: 2008-01-05 14:53

Re: General Principals in which the art of war resides

Post by Wicca »

Id like to add another note to this old document.

The idea i had was to take all assets, and prepare them in such a manner that at my say. I would destroy a hundred enemies in an instant. And take objectives and vital positions instantly simultenous.

Command and control on our age reaches new levels every day. And with communication and coordination being so effective. Why not add another infinite law, or principle.

Try to strike your enemy, with all your might at once. In one striking blow.
Meaning, mortars, air support, infantry.

Preperation is important in this case, find the enemy, prepare the attack. Then at the commanders discretion attack all at once.

Does it fit one of the above?
Xact Wicca is The Joker. That is all.
goguapsy
Posts: 3688
Joined: 2009-06-06 19:12

Re: General Principals in which the art of war resides

Post by goguapsy »

Well, what you are saying, Wicca, is basically rule IV:
IV
Gather your forces before you act.
You mean "Shock and Awe", right, mate?
Guys, when a new player comes, just answer his question and go on your merry way, instead of going berserk! It's THAT simple! :D

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