Suppression Effect: What makes you withdraw?

[cyberzomby]

1: Do you think that since PR has a longer re-spawn time than other games, does that make you value your "life" more so you don't have to get transported back into position? (Or any other time consuming factor)

Yes I value my life more but I also know that my medic will do anything to heal me up.

2: Is there a PR mentality that you received while playing this game, and you just subconsciously withdraw under fire?

I think for me it partially does yes. Its a bit of a second nature in PR.
3: How about that you depend much on seeing your enemy so if you're suppressed, you don't shoot back?

Sometimes I trie. But that really depends on in what sort of position and cover I am.

4: Do you want to save ammo and not waste it on blindly shooting?

No, I play Medic almost exclusively so I need to aim with Iron Sights most of the time. Usually Im the guy who surpresses the enemy with the Squad's LMG and the rest make accurate shots with there scopes.

5: Or do you think suppression allows for an opportunity for moving to a better position to take out the target before he suppresses you again?

Yes, most of the times when I get surpressed I relocate. Its useless sticking your head up again, since you will get surpressed again.

6: Its not worth the engagement.
hmm, I can agree with this. Most of the times you wont hit 'm.


7: The PR deviation is difficult so its not worth trying.
No, you just need to know how to use it.

8: You don't want to lose a ticket for the team... YOU'RE A TEAM PLAYER!
Yea somewhere in the whole set-up is this line I guess. If you try to engage while blurred and you die, it costs a ticket.

[masterceo]

from 50m I try to put as much rounds near my target as I can. That way he can't effectively return fire, and maybe I'll get lucky and one of my bullets hits him. I win most of engagements like this.
When suppressed I try to retreat, re-think my strategy and engage from a different point or ambush. Additionally, the long respawn time encourages me to fall back rather having to wait 30 sec for respawn and walking for ages to where I died.

[Cassius]

It really depends. If he is in the open and I am in cover, I return fire. Eventually he is surpressed himself or killed. If I am taking fire and have no idea where its coming from, I am taking cover. But yes, too many squadmates dont understand that you do not shoot back when shot at, you let the squadmembers shoot back who are not surpressed and shoot when they are taking fire. Unless everybody gets sprayed, then its time to call in an airstrike.

[liningwzgl]

Suppression effect isn't supposed to represent the effect of bullets "distorting the senses" as they pass by or anything like that.

It's purely to screw up player's aim and situational awareness; to make you seek cover because you can't return fire as accurately or observe other threats.

In real life if you're getting shot at, you get under cover as quickly as possible. That is what you should do in PR and the suppression effect shader doesn't work *brilliantly* to achieve that, but it helps.

As a average player,I don't know much about those technique stuff like shader or engine etc.I only wonder why bullets hitting the ground have something to do with my eyes,I think when being shot at ,I may shit my pants ,but my epinephrine would boosts my ability of senses not reduce.Anyway I don't like the effect,it makes me feel bad.it won't make the game better but do the opposite.
Ps:there's only one game has this so called sup... effects.So,u think games like crysis run without this suppression effects have technique limitation?BF2 is the best and others suck?

[13DarkWolf]

1: Do you think that since PR has a longer re-spawn time than other games, does that make you value your "life" more so you don't have to get transported back into position? (Or any other time consuming factor)
Generally i do value the life more but only for the squad's sake, not really for my own, because ultimately its not really a problem just respawning at the FOB. I value my own life only really when we are down to last tickets and shouldn't give up if wounded.

2: Is there a PR mentality that you received while playing this game, and you just subconsciously withdraw under fire?
Not so much, it depends on the importance of our squad's situation, for instance if we're near a cache without a FOB, i'll definitely be more careful. I don't think thats to do with the suppression

3: How about that you depend much on seeing your enemy so if you're suppressed, you don't shoot back?
Not at all, i willingly take ironsight weaponary as a better weapon for suppression.

4: Do you want to save ammo and not waste it on blindly shooting?
It depends on the team i'm playing on, hence i generally more inclined to blind fire as insurgents, sometimes from the hip if close, but try to take more precise shots if i'm playing as a conventional force.

5: Or do you think suppression allows for an opportunity for moving to a better position to take out the target before he suppresses you again?
There's really often no chance to move when heavily suppressed as the chances of a stray bullet hitting are too high.

What makes you ACTUALLY withdraw while under fire?
Well placed grenades really push you back.

[doop-de-doo]

So the real topic is what makes you withdraw?

The deviation system makes me withdraw. Meaning that if someone is going to/has beat me to the settle time, I run like the wind.

If I'm under the suppression effect in a well protected place, I can wait for him to reload. Otherwise, yes, I am forced to another location. The chance of his teammates moving into grenade range starts going up fast if it's a medium range combat situation.

[gumball360]

[MoW];1428837']If i would have argued that towards my training lieutenant he would have slapped me. Doctrine stresses that you should take the initative, in this case get more people firing back with "firethrusts".

What I suggested would in no way prevent you from firing back, but it would stop you from firing back with the same precision as you normally would. Right now, if I have an enemy right in the middle of my crosshairs, I can kill him easily even during the suppression effect. As long as he hasn't moved

[Murphy]

Generally the suppression effect leads to lack of situational awareness, which will most often force me back off the position under fire. My natural instinct is always to flank, so chances are even w.o the suppression I would break contact and find a way to out maneuver my opponent. As it stands I tend to stick with my squad and return fire, even if I'm being suppressed I know the guy shooting will soon have more targets then he can handle.

If I'm making my way back to the squad and come under fire I'll move cover to cover while returning fire, but suppression won't pin me as it does soldier in real life. This really disappoints me as it leads to all sorts of unrealistically brave moves on my part when I know if I was downrange of that much lead reality dictates you become as small a target as possible, digging comes to mind when cover is scarce.

As it is the suppression effect lends itself nicely to giving the upper hand to the squad with a higher volume of fire, but it only works enough to disorient as opposed to instilling a sense of fear and urgency. That being said I've not seen another game that encourages you to maintain constant fire down range quite like PR manages to.

Personally I'd like to see new values for deviation under fire, maybe some heavy breathing effect due to your adrenaline being through the roof at this point, and possibly a darkening of the edges of the screen to get the most out of suppression. In its current state, as pointed out by many posts in this thread, suppression is just a mild inconvenience.

[Arnoldio]

There is not much that can be done since the thing is just a shader effect im afraid.

I've told this couple of times that i had a strange bug, when suppression effect kicked in, my whole screan was black and then faded in. It worked really great, but, a bit TOO great since i didnt see anything...

So im suggesting a much more violent darkening of the scren or even full black for a fraction when effect starts, like you blinked/eyes are shit (if supression is prolongued).

[IHarryXx]

9) My SL shouts at me for not moving

[AurianTitan]

Well about the physics of the suppression effect distorting your senses, I did say presumably. But I did read somewhere long, long, time ago about them explaining holly wood fire fights being very unrealistic and how there is little effect of flying bullets on the subjects. But this part, would be my educated guess:

The bullet travelling through the air, for certain guns, will have the bullet breaking the sound barrier. The sonic boom would be silent, however, the energy released from the bullet travelling through the air, dramatically, and briefly changes the air pressure around it; including temperature. This would cause a very brief moment of decreased hearing (if you ever noticed sometimes, it feels like your ear drum pops in and out (like a spasm) for a split second and then your head becomes warm in randomness; and you hear a short beep noise--this can also be caused by, which is said below this: from lack of sleep or stress).

I don't believe that this will change your vision, but stress can. Under fire, the subject is suddenly being rushed by cortisone running through the body because of muscle stress, fear, and mental stability trying to concentrate on the situation. Along with this, epinephrine will also be injected into the body; fast enough to create light-headedness and shortness of breath, which can make the your vision appear or feel flashy and hazy for a short moment... and then you start to feel active and alerted. Even for a veteran (but less dramatic), stress will always come, acting with fear to create the lose of awareness for a short period of time. This would also affect muscle reactions and tensions--you might feel jittery when firing your gun back or your leg muscles trembling when running away.

I'm not saying that the suppression effect is based on real life events, but perhaps those suppression effects would most likely be caused by stress and adrenaline so it would give them a lack of situational awareness like many have said above.

What I always wanted to see was, if you were wounded (like got shot in the leg or arm)--you won't be able to run efficiently or have decreased stability in the arms and deviation. But that's just me and Idk if the BF2 engine can do such a thing.

[Tarranauha200]

I usually run away/take cover. Then I pop my head out and shoot randomly to enemy position.
THEN I DIE! Sometimes I stop and thing: What I would do in real life...? Take cover? yeah! but moment later Im assaulting them.

[bad_nade]

What makes you ACTUALLY withdraw while under fire?

Nothing. There is no way to make virtual life valuable, which is the root cause of many game play issues in shooters - including PR.

There are times I try to get into safe instead of shooting back, but it usually happens only when I'm on the move and get under fire without warning.

[sprint113]

Depending on the availability of cover, and whether I know where the shots are coming from, there is usually enough visual information that the I can still target the hostile and return relatively accurate fire, at least accurate enough to suppress him.

I think various physiological effects from the fight or flight response may be accurate, some side effects of being shot at may include increased heart rate, shaking and acceleration of reflexes, which may make it more difficult to aim a rifle (increase deviation?) and tunnel vision (add a blur effect that narrows the field of view).

Of course, these effects might be lower in soldiers, who presumably have been trained to a certain degree against these effects.

Additionally, it causes loss of bladder, which can be added with each soldier being able to leave a puddle of shame, with corresponding change in uniform appearance.

[bmd-es90]

When someone is supressing me I keep my head down and covered, then try to move to a safe zone preferable out of enemy line of sight. I warn my squad and ask for help and cover while i'm retreating. After all that it's HUNT TIME!

[Cobhris]

Nothing. I just move and try to get a different angle to shoot the guy. Once a firefight has started, one of us has to die and I just do whatever I can to make sure that isn't me.

[Wh33lman]

yeah, i do value my "life" a little more in PR because it is a rather long wait to respawn and usually even longer to get back to the fight. as for shoting back, you have 8 clips with most kits(compaired to 4 from vBF2), so it makes supression a viable tactic. you dont have to be stingy with the ammo. and deviation has nothing to do with it. shooting to supress means you dont actually have to hit your target.

when im being fired at and supressed, i tend to shoot back in hopes of supressing my attacker. it usually doesnt work, so i would withdraw.

[CommunistComma]

It's not the respawn time, it's the walking time. Definitely the walking time. Oh and more walking time.
When I'm getting shot at, I usually don't get suppressed and just die.

[Ghostick]

I haven't played PR in weeks but this thread got me thinking how I do play.

1: Do you think that since PR has a longer re-spawn time than other games, does that make you value your "life" more so you don't have to get transported back into position? (Or any other time consuming factor)
90% of the time I play medic, and half the time the squad prefers the medic in a rearward position. In most situations when surpressed I take cover, but not necessarily retreat unless its close (~100m)

2: Is there a PR mentality that you received while playing this game, and you just subconsciously withdraw under fire?
I retreat in nearly all FPS. It is as important to disrupt the enemies' situational awareness as it is to maintain your own. Withdrawing is an important way to throw your enemy off (So long as they don't have you pinned down in the open, in which case it's a sprint to nearest cover)

3: How about that you depend much on seeing your enemy so if you're suppressed, you don't shoot back?
A lot of the time surpression is exactly that, just bullets landing near you, as opposed to aimed fire. Firing back while blinded just gives your position away to everyone, allowing the enemy to pinpoint your position. Unless it's clear where the enemy is, my priority as medic keeps me thinking about my safety above killing the enemy.

4: Do you want to save ammo and not waste it on blindly shooting?
No, but once again shooting blindly is a job left to the AR. (and still something I don't like)

5: Or do you think suppression allows for an opportunity for moving to a better position to take out the target before he suppresses you again?
It does. In a quick skirmish with minimal cover, or being caught in the open, attempting to suppress and move is your only draw card.

6: Its not worth the engagement.
Probably the key to my mindset is stealth, so avoiding firefights is useful in a lot of maps, though hard to gather like-minded people in a squad.

7: The PR deviation is difficult so its not worth trying.
No different to being suppressed or unsuppressed if you're talking about deviation, though the double vision of heavy suppression can make it pretty damn hard to aim.

8: You don't want to lose a ticket for the team... YOU'RE A TEAM PLAYER!
Probably the least important in my mind. I just rarely think of tickets as a personal priority. Taking objectives costs tickets, its just a matter of doing your job efficiently, helping the squad work effectively, and dying as little as possible to keep ticket loss at a minimum.

9: Other?
Vehicles, explosives, lack of cover during an approach, being wounded is also a big one (since as I said before a lot of medics stay a little behind the squad), needing to rearm, recently lasing a target that's a little too close (covered under explosives I guess), squad just got annihilated, SL says "Ghostick, slow down"... I could go on.

But I suppose the word withdraw isn't very specific; falling back 10m and falling back to a flag 200m away are the extremes but I think of both as withdrawals.