RPG fails :(

[amazing_retard]

The RPG does fail.

It fails MORE than it does in real life too.

I tested someone's statistic comment about 50% hit probability at 250metres on a tank (IRL). He said, "It's even easier in PR".

Test it.

I did.

1/3 or 1/4 is more like it at 250m.

I must have fired 30 RPGs on Abrams and Bradley on Fallujah in Local. I noticed significant misses to the left VERY often. I never had a shot veer to the right. It always overshot or undershot or went left.

+1
It's really stupid how your back is totally clear, but you randomly get killed because the rocket somehow deviated into a wall

I'm not asking for the RPG to be exactly like a LAT, I'm just asking for the damn thing to stop randomly killing it's user. Doesn't the RPG have a minimal arming distance in real life?

[Elektro]

Don't the Russian anti-tank platoons operate a more modern ATGM launcher like the Javelin, SRAW or Eryx, or do they still use iron sighted RPGs?

[Cossack]

Yes, the RPG is reload available weapon so its effective with different warheads. You don't have to take ten SRAW. Just one RPG and warheads. The good old Soviet weaponry...

[Jaymz]

The RPG does fail.

It fails MORE than it does in real life too.

I tested someone's statistic comment about 50% hit probability at 250metres on a tank (IRL). He said, "It's even easier in PR".

Test it.

I did.

1/3 or 1/4 is more like it at 250m.

I must have fired 30 RPGs on Abrams and Bradley on Fallujah in Local. I noticed significant misses to the left VERY often. I never had a shot veer to the right. It always overshot or undershot or went left.

From crouched position and settled for 4 seconds I assume. If you're over/under shooting then it's not the deviation, it's the drop. Those statistics are with the gunner fully accounting for drop.

+1
It's really stupid how your back is totally clear, but you randomly get killed because the rocket somehow deviated into a wall

I'm not asking for the RPG to be exactly like a LAT, I'm just asking for the damn thing to stop randomly killing it's user. Doesn't the RPG have a minimal arming distance in real life?

I should have mentioned this before, but this will be fixed in 0.95 because a short arming delay has been added.

[AquaticPenguin]

The RPG does fail.

It fails MORE than it does in real life too.

I tested someone's statistic comment about 50% hit probability at 250metres on a tank (IRL). He said, "It's even easier in PR".

Test it.

I did.

1/3 or 1/4 is more like it at 250m.

I must have fired 30 RPGs on Abrams and Bradley on Fallujah in Local. I noticed significant misses to the left VERY often. I never had a shot veer to the right. It always overshot or undershot or went left.

I also tested it just now, and I got about 1/3 hits at 250m which isn't too bad. There are some factors which I think make that a realistic hit ratio.
1) There is no cross-wind in game, which from the PDF appears quite a contributing factor to hit probability.
2) The main users of the RPG-7 in game are insurgents, who would not have the same level of training as a soldier.
3) There are other external factors which could contribute to a miss such as the effects of adrenaline, or fatigue.
4) I believe the PDF is citing the hit probability of 50% when using an RPG with optics, since quite a bit of the paper revolves around the optics and the telescopic sight is described as 'the primary system'.
5) In the case of insurgents, the quality of the RPGs may be significantly lower. A lot of the munitions are kept in less than ideal conditions, and in the case of the taliban, may be left-over weaponry from the soviet invasion of afghanistan.

edit: this was crouched, waiting for at least 4 seconds between shots and with me accounting for drop. Target was the T-62 on basrah, which is very slightly smaller than most MBTs.

[amazing_retard]

Jaymz;1435073']From crouched position and settled for 4 seconds I assume. If you're over/under shooting then it's not the deviation, it's the drop. Those statistics are with the gunner fully accounting for drop.



I should have mentioned this before, but this will be fixed in 0.95 because a short arming delay has been added.

Thanks mate great news

Now RPG will be less lethal to the insurgents

[ryan d ale]

If you're over/under shooting then it's not the deviation, it's the drop. Those statistics are with the gunner fully accounting for drop.

I find that interesting.

Drop must be difficult to master. I tried to work a system for it using the a marker and object but it didn't come out with anything super-solid really.

[badmojo420]

I've hit moving targets at over 300m before. It all comes down to gunner experience. If anything is wrong with the RPG, I would say it's TOO accurate. If you can master the drop there isn't anything you can't hit.

[Mr Smiles]

1) There is no cross-wind in game, which from the PDF appears quite a contributing factor to hit probability.
2) The main users of the RPG-7 in game are insurgents, who would not have the same level of training as a soldier.
3) There are other external factors which could contribute to a miss such as the effects of adrenaline, or fatigue.

All perfectly fine arguments, if there was an option to counter these situations.
Right now its like rolling a dice, not really a perfect world either.
I have no suggestions on how to make this system better, but i do experience me always missing targets beyond 150m (TG/150 ping)

[13DarkWolf]

I think the unpredictability of the RPG deviation is great, with the warhead size and weight being fired by a cheaply made launcher simulated well in PR IMO.
Aquatic Penguin summed it up pretty nicely, there are a lot of realistic factors that constitute as to why it is so temperamental.

I haven't got enough fingers to count the amount of times that i've shot the ditch in front of me though... which reminds me of this:
(excuse the video title please)

[Trooper909]

To the above video iv seen a few like that with many AT based systems and there mostly errr fake.

If you select a few other vids from the list you will see many a RPG fireing perfectly at over 500m
there's also many with US/UK equipment failing should so we also make all there stuff bad based on few vids of equipment misshaps?

Sounds harsh but someone allways posts a vid of Insurgent/Soviet equipment failing as a reason to keep a bugged weapon the way it is.I can find many of Blufor weapons failing also.

Also the old "the guy is poorly trained" arguement well afgans have been at war throughout resent history and probs have more combat xp and training than most conventional forces will ever get.

Whats the other one ooo yeah the weapons are poorly maintained and thats why there lame ingame.Soviet weapons were built to last and be maintanable by a trained chimp thats exactly why some of the weapons date back from the 60s and still in fully working order so that IMO is another fail throery.

[Exonar]

Hahaha try using the Americas Army 2 RPGs. Those things would spiral out of control every 1/3 shots.

[AquaticPenguin]

To the above video iv seen a few like that with many AT based systems and there mostly errr fake.

Like a bad curry, this needs some sauce. So far the only source that's been posted is the RPG training manual PDF, and that fairly unrelated video.

If you select a few other vids from the list you will see many a RPG fireing perfectly at over 500m
there's also many with US/UK equipment failing should so we also make all there stuff bad based on few vids of equipment misshaps?

Again, source or provide one of those videos please. There are a lot of RPG firing videos on youtube, but none show the range and you cannot accurately estimate distance from camera footage.

Sounds harsh but someone allways posts a vid of Insurgent/Soviet equipment failing as a reason to keep a bugged weapon the way it is.I can find many of Blufor weapons failing also.

The video was fairly unrelated to the topic, and I'm not sure it was really to make a point.

Also the old "the guy is poorly trained" arguement well afgans have been at war throughout resent history and probs have more combat xp and training than most conventional forces will ever get.

This is true, they have been in a lot of fighting. To clarify my point though, from looking through the training manual it appears that it requires quite specific knowledge on the RPG-7 to fire it accurately. There's a lot of things you have to compensate for and get used to. I don't believe that because they have been in conflicts, they will all know how to use each available weapon system to the same level as army training. There will be professionally trained soldiers in the mix, but equally there will be recruits.

They will get training of the weapon systems in some form, but I would have thought there would be a preference to use munitions on the enemy, rather than on targets. This is, however, a claim I can't back up so it doesn't hold much weight.

Whats the other one ooo yeah the weapons are poorly maintained and thats why there lame ingame.Soviet weapons were built to last and be maintanable by a trained chimp thats exactly why some of the weapons date back from the 60s and still in fully working order so that IMO is another fail throery.

Common sense tells me that a weapon will degrade over time, your claim is very specific but unsourced. I don't believe that my points were flawless as they are interpretations on the original PDF source, but they explain why I believe that it is not unrealistic for the RPG to have a slightly lower accuracy than stated.

edit: On the topic of sources, is it just me or does every search just end up either linking, or quoting wikipedia. It seems like wikipedia is being detrimental to the free flow of information. No-one can trust it enough as evidence to back up a point, but websites on the subject are inclined to copy and paste the information to avoid doing their own research.

[Doc.Pock]

This is true, they have been in a lot of fighting. To clarify my point though, from looking through the training manual it appears that it requires quite specific knowledge on the RPG-7 to fire it accurately. There's a lot of things you have to compensate for and get used to. I don't believe that because they have been in conflicts, they will all know how to use each available weapon system to the same level as army training. There will be professionally trained soldiers in the mix, but equally there will be recruits.

I have fired a RPG and i can tell you its very accurate except the sights are hard to use:

[masterceo]

If you select a few other vids from the list you will see many a RPG firing perfectly at over 500m

My dad's face when he heard that.
According to him Russian and Polish made (therefore good quality, but it's kinda hard to fk up RPG design) RPG7s are dead accurate up to about 100m. When the weather is nearly perfect, 200m shots are still possible though expect misses.
Firing beyond 250m is pointless, and it was very uncommon that the warhead would hit a tank size target at that range. Even if someone did manage to score a hit, it was almost sure he wouldn't repeat the shot.
He served in the Polish Ground forces, former tank technician, so he knows what he's talking about.

[Infantry4Ever]

The insurgent RPG-7 in-game is even more lenient that the real thing would be in the hands of a trained RPG Gunner.

I would hope so :S.

[Trooper909]

Lol I wasnt even trying to state solid set in stone facts about RPG fireing (iv never even seen a real one)
I was making a point about rpg's in game clearly being bugged and how peaple quote a wiki(about as accurate as my "facts") or a badly shoot youtube vid to justify keeping a weapon thats buggy as hell ingame the way it is.

One solid set in stone fact about RPG's ingame compaired to real life RPG's is that the ingame ones clearly defy the laws of physics.

[Jaymz]

If you select a few other vids from the list you will see many a RPG fireing perfectly at over 500m

The chance of an RPG-7 gunner hitting a fully exposed and stationary tank at 500m, after missing the first time to allow for correction, is little over 20%.

source : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/rpg-7.pdf

I was making a point about rpg's in game clearly being bugged and how peaple quote a wiki(about as accurate as my "facts")

My sources are,

1. US Army TRADOC's study on RPG-7 effectiveness based on fully trained RPG-7 gunners
2. GlobalSecurity.org
3. A team of highly experienced military advisers

One solid set in stone fact about RPG's ingame compaired to real life RPG's is that the ingame ones clearly defy the laws of physics.

The RPG-7 in-game is more accurate than the real thing.

[alvina]

From my own experience in game the RPG is not what it used to be, but that's good, I like when PR puts these stuff in where you get a feeling of reality and not everything goes to plan. Now you just have to make sure to fire RPG medium or close range, more tactics, and more uncertain situations, wich reality is just like. They should put more uncertain stuff in.

[amazing_retard]

When I made this thread my argument was that the RPG killed the user too often. Since the RPG is now going to get a minimal arming distance all is good