Tows and there damage to inf and helos

Uthric · Post by **Uthric** » 2010-09-07 22:42

with the up coming mortars could we get a reduction on the explosive on ground of the tows? and possibly make them less effective on helos, i have seen more tows built on roofs (muttrah city) and on the hills over looking the city (jabal, Beirut) for use as AA than i have seen AA built in the entire map

xI DIaboLoS Ix · Post by **xI DIaboLoS Ix** » 2010-09-07 23:34

What makes you think that a TOW missile could not take out a helicopter? What needs to change is their ability to "swivel" aim quickly and adjust the missiles manuevability imo. But I beleive the devs have all ready fiddled and tweaked TOW's.

Beowulf2525 · Post by **Beowulf2525** » 2010-09-07 23:35

Uthric wrote:with the up coming mortars could we get a reduction on the explosive on ground of the tows? and possibly make them less effective on helos, i have seen more tows built on roofs (muttrah city) and on the hills over looking the city (jabal, Beirut) for use as AA than i have seen AA built in the entire map

How do you make an Anti-Armor missile not be effective against a soft-target helicopter? No offense, but really. And for its' effectiveness vs. infantry: If a TOW operator wants to waste the missile on Infantry, it would kill that squad or squad member. I see no reason to change he power of the TOW.

Additionally, I believe this is has been suggested beyond numerous times.

Again, no harm intended.

TomDackery · Post by **TomDackery** » 2010-09-07 23:46

Simply increase the reload time to encourage the idea that they shouldn't spend all their TOWs on infantry, because if armor comes up, they'll be screwed. As it is, TOW reload time is waaay too fast and encourages people to sit on it and fire fire fire without repercussion.

badmojo420 · Post by **badmojo420** » 2010-09-08 01:15

If you want weapons that don't represent their real life counterpart, play Bad Company 2. The TOW does barely anything to infantry without a direct hit. The anti-aircraft vehicle has been nerfed so badly, so as to not have it used against ground targets, except now it isn't even effective against a helicopter.

When you start modifying reality like that you end up with unrealistic behavior in game. Say we dumbed down the TOWs so they would only hurt land vehicles, how soon until we have helicopter pilots landing right beside the tow emplacements? Or blocking the view of the TOW, while the tank gets in position to fire on it.

I prefer realism. If the helicopter is in view of the FOB/TOW/AA/HMG whatever, it's going to get killed. Does it make much difference if it's done with an AA missile or a TOW?

llRvXll · Post by **llRvXll** » 2010-09-08 01:44

Hitting a huey with an AA in muttrah city is kinda
impossible, unless if the pilot don't launch his flares...

I think that the tows are perfect as they are right now, except by the fact that in critical situations squad leaders tend to set the tow, and someone start digging it, when the tow appears someone jump on it while a soldier still digging the tow...

The same happens to AA's and .50s

amazing_retard · Post by **amazing_retard** » 2010-09-08 02:45

Yes make AA better to be more realistic

Hotrod525 · Post by **Hotrod525** » 2010-09-08 02:46

I'm in the Army and beleive me, if something can be used to kill or destroy a vehicle / personal / helo / whatever even if its not intended for ( like tow is for AT not for AA or AI ) IT WILL BE USED AGAINST ANY TYPE OF TARGET.

Hunt3r · Post by **Hunt3r** » 2010-09-08 03:20

Make the TOW's turret take a while to turn and get up to the max rotation speed. That way engaging a helo will take a good bit more skill, leading more, since it realistically caps the turn rate of the missile.

ankyle62 · Post by **ankyle62** » 2010-09-08 03:27

Hotrod525 wrote:I'm in the Army and beleive me, if something can be used to kill or destroy a vehicle / personal / helo / whatever even if its not intended for ( like tow is for AT not for AA or AI ) IT WILL BE USED AGAINST ANY TYPE OF TARGET.

pretty much but it comes down to game play. getting tow sniped at 800 meters out when you are a rifle man just gets retarded.

Dev1200 · Post by **Dev1200** » 2010-09-08 03:52

Beowulf2525 wrote:How do you make an Anti-Armor missile not be effective against a soft-target helicopter? No offense, but really. And for its' effectiveness vs. infantry: If a TOW operator wants to waste the missile on Infantry, it would kill that squad or squad member. I see no reason to change he power of the TOW.

Additionally, I believe this is has been suggested beyond numerous times.

Again, no harm intended.

Make ammo actually have value, and this will be true.

If TOW's used up ammo from supply crates, then they wouldn't be infinite as they are now

ComradeHX · Post by **ComradeHX** » 2010-09-08 04:39

The current TOW is fine.

If a rifleman gets hit form 800m, that means his team's APC/Tank...etc. is not.

Also, hitting a moving, low-flying chopper with a TOW is not the easiest thing to do in the world.

What would be appropriate is maybe some change to the turn speed of missiles.

Also... I got 3 clean shots on different hueys with handheld AA on Muttrah today... none of them went down... there is a problem.

Uthric · Post by **Uthric** » 2010-09-08 04:56

im just saying in the past 2 weeks, all you here now days is hurry up and build that tow before there helos get here, and that right there says theres a problem,

im all for making it reload slower and turn slower it would make flanking a tow or rushing it while it reloads all that much easier

(the handheld AA on Muttrah is just about useless)

Bringerof_D · Post by **Bringerof_D** » 2010-09-08 07:12

problem is not with TOW, problem lies with the AA, it is simply ineffective. The only reason people build TOW "before the choppers arrive, is because the TOW is effective when the AA is not where it should be 10x more effective than the tow

badmojo420 · Post by **badmojo420** » 2010-09-08 23:48

ComradeHX wrote:Also... I got 3 clean shots on different hueys with handheld AA on Muttrah today... none of them went down... there is a problem.

Yeah, the problem is the SA7 isn't effective against Hueys. I've never actually seen a huey/chinook/cow go down from only 1 hit of the SA7.(in a real game, this version) They just keep flying. I've even seen all the passengers in a huey die from the sa7 blast, while the pilot and co-pilot keep flying like nothing happened.

On the other hand there's the stinger that'll take down just about any aircraft from a longer range. It's annoying to see stuff like the heavy anti-tank launchers, attack helos, main battle tanks, etc, be balanced to pretty much the same for all factions. While the portable AA is still very un-balanced.

I've complained about this a number of times in the past, yet nothing changes.

Death_dx · Post by **Death_dx** » 2010-09-09 03:51

The problem with the current system of tow vs inf is that PR only has 6 man squads, so you can significantly reduce the effective number of fighters with limited effort and plentiful ammo remaining. The solution therefore should be to reduce the amount of ammo or reduce the effectiveness of the tow vs inf. I don't see any reason that the tow needs to have a large area splash damage realism or not, as it is an anti tank round and shouldn't be expected to be fired at infantry frequently if at all.

Uthric · Post by **Uthric** » 2010-09-09 13:04

Death_dx wrote:I don't see any reason that the tow needs to have a large area splash damage realism or not, as it is an anti tank round and shouldn't be expected to be fired at infantry frequently if at all.

that's the main reason i put inf in the main post

ryan d ale · Post by **ryan d ale** » 2010-09-09 13:17

I will often TOW infantry if I am guarding on a TOW and I can't hear a vehicle.

Do you expect me to get off it and wait it for my the deviation to settle whilst you've already got your sights on me?

If you get in the way of a TOW and you're not smart enough to have at least 1 other guy a few metres away from you so you can supress or kill the operator then that's a failure on your part.

The operators failure is wasting a missle and possibly getting attacked from a different angle.

Also, AT weapons are used on infantry.

It doesn't matter if it's ISAF or Taliban the weapons will be used against Infantry.

IIRC (just like the canadian said) that it is part of US Marine doctrine to use ALL available firepower as quickly as possible to supress or kill the enemy or demoralise them and then await resupply if necessary simply to increase surivability of the troops.

doop-de-doo · Post by **doop-de-doo** » 2010-09-09 14:36

I don't have any problems with TOWs. If you had missed your shot at armor and the reload time been increased, you would not have any chance at all of a second shot. If I had a problem, it would be the fact the AA missiles don't do any damage to anything except aircraft.

ComradeHX · Post by **ComradeHX** » 2010-09-09 16:46

ryan d ale wrote: If you get in the way of a TOW and you're not smart enough to have at least 1 other guy a few metres away from you so you can supress or kill the operator then that's a failure on your part.

People in stationary weapons cannot be suppressed IIRC.

That is something that need to be worked on.

Tows and there damage to inf and helos

Tows and there damage to inf and helos

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Re: Tows and there damage to inf and helos

Re: Tows and there damage to inf and helos