On the matter of smaller maps and smaller number of players on server

[PFunk]

I thought that the prevailing wisdom amongst the Devs was that they were moving away from smaller 1km maps. Maps such as OGT were considered obsolete and otherwise too small for the kind of play that they wanted to create with PR. I tend to disagree but its their mod.

There is a difference between skirmish mode and a normal PR map thats small. I find skirmish to be an otherwise unsatisfying gamestyle in the long run, whereas a small map is just small with normal objectives. Skirmish is just a bit too small and congested. It lacks the ability to play smartly mostly, rather forcing you into firefights over a few critical crossroads and choke points. OGT however was fun because there was lots of room to hide and the ability to slip around behind enemies.

I like a good small map, but sometimes the random AAS now makes for a map that only uses half or even less of its available space so I think that compensates somewhat.

[lucky.BOY]

Mabe some1 could make a 32 layout for a big map. I guess it requires some effort, but it takes less time then making your own map, takes less space on HDD, and it could give you the profit you are calling for.

[Tim270]

There are already some 32 (alt) layouts that focus much more on infantry combat. = Less people in assets - more people fighting.

I would any-day rather have 4km big maps replacing smaller 1k maps. The mod has always been about 64 players and always should.

[sell]

There are already some 32 (alt) layouts that focus much more on infantry combat. = Less people in assets - more people fighting

muttrah inf layout is excellent, trans LB`s, and nice inf fights

[samthegreat4]

I know that PR is the work of the Devs. But it wouldn't be that hard to just give one or two small AAS maps to those true fans that miss them. Of course you could just say: ''go make them yourselfs..''. But I don't think it's that hard to update one or two of those old maps a bit and put them in there. 1) The size of the mod won't increase hugely. 2) People have a choice in whether they choose to play it or not. So people who don't wanna play, just don't. 3) I think, but correct me if I'm wrong, that updating two little maps or so, wouldn't take that much work.

And I know that the Devs decide what they like and what they don't like, and I know too that they listen to the PR players for suggestions. But I just think that some suggestions are put of too easily and this could be one of them.

[Rudd]

I know that PR is the work of the Devs. But it wouldn't be that hard to just give one or two small AAS maps to those true fans that miss them. Of course you could just say: ''go make them yourselfs..''. But I don't think it's that hard to update one or two of those old maps a bit and put them in there. 1) The size of the mod won't increase hugely. 2) People have a choice in whether they choose to play it or not. So people who don't wanna play, just don't.

cheers for volunteering mate, its really appreciated

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... audit.html

post up when your done

[quaazi]

I like how the general attitude of devs towards their playerbase has become "do it yourself, we're not here to amuse you". Because that's REAL constructive.

In the end, all talk of "alt map modes" and "skirm mode" is beside the point. Nearly all servers start their day with maps they see fit for 64 player duty. Try starting a server on, say, Kashan. Unless there's a really stable playerbase, it's not gonna work. Maps that ARE fit for smaller populations, like Asad Khal, aren't really two conventional factions fighting. The route the devs seem to be taking is ASSETS. MOAR ASSETS. That is, screw infantry maps, screw small maps, and screw insurgents. I haven't been round long enough to tell, but since 0.8 or so, there's been like what, a Gary and some new AK sounds added for ins, while there's been a literal fuckton of stuff given to blufor (and hell, even a map changed to accomodate their needs). I am rambling though, so my point here is this - it's by no means a poor direction to take, but it makes playing in a server with 10 or so players a real *****.

[Burton]

I like how the general attitude of devs towards their playerbase has become "do it yourself, we're not here to amuse you". Because that's REAL constructive.

That's not their attitude at all. If you had access to see "behind the scenes" then you would realise quite how much hard work is put into making these mods happen.
The main Development team simply don't have the time to audit every map to add new modes just because a minority wants it done.

This is where the community comes into it.. You see something that would be good to have in the mod, the Dev team say it's not their priority, so you step upto the plate and do it. They see your hard work, and repay you (sometimes) with [R-TAG]s if you show an interest in working for the mod more in the future.

Bottom line is this.
If you want something in the mod that badly, do some of the legwork. The DEV's have deadlines to meet and schedules to follow. If they started going off the beaten track to audit a map here or there to add an extra layer the mod would quickly get behind, and then low and behold, the community would start crying blue murder because there's not been an update for 6months.

Rock and a hard place.

[Web_cole]

I've been wondering for a while if a Custom Map Server for PR could actually survive. There certainly appears to be a lot of maps in development for the mod atm, and if the DEVs don't want to increase the size of the mod much beyond what it is now, you'd have to assume there will be a lot of maps that won't make into the mod.

Then of course there's the matter of the server having to be passworded, and a (potentially substantial) download needed to play on the server, both of which would make it very difficult to get any kind of population. And that's to say nothing of getting the individual mappers permission to use their maps. Still, could be interesting...

[Tim270]

I like how the general attitude of devs towards their playerbase has become "do it yourself, we're not here to amuse you". Because that's REAL constructive.

In the end, all talk of "alt map modes" and "skirm mode" is beside the point. Nearly all servers start their day with maps they see fit for 64 player duty. Try starting a server on, say, Kashan. Unless there's a really stable playerbase, it's not gonna work. Maps that ARE fit for smaller populations, like Asad Khal, aren't really two conventional factions fighting. The route the devs seem to be taking is ASSETS. MOAR ASSETS. That is, screw infantry maps, screw small maps, and screw insurgents. I haven't been round long enough to tell, but since 0.8 or so, there's been like what, a Gary and some new AK sounds added for ins, while there's been a literal fuckton of stuff given to blufor (and hell, even a map changed to accomodate their needs). I am rambling though, so my point here is this - it's by no means a poor direction to take, but it makes playing in a server with 10 or so players a real *****.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f389-p ... -chuc.html

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f389-p ... e_spb.html

Notice how there are also new kit geo's for insurgents in those pics. Also, insurgents being insurgents means there is no uniform kit list, no standardisation of uniforms or weapons so its somewhat impossible to constantly update them as their kit varies so wildly.

What would you propose would be done for the insurgents that is not being done?

Your right, there is no infantry combat on Iron Ridge, Silent Eagle, Dragon Fly, Gaza, Lashkar, Yamalia or Ochamchira. All these new maps are only focused on assets If anything, only one of those (Silent Eagle) is a 'asset map' but even then it has a strong focus on infantry fighting around the centre.

There is no shortage of insurgency maps.

Maps are always based around the largest common number of players - 64. Maps are not going to be designed for 32 or under. Pr is all about big maps, sure the smaller ones can be fun, but also very frustrating and spammy - leads to less realistic tactics.

If you cant populate a server you should look towards partnering up with a clan to help seed the server for you. Designing maps to cater for under 32 players is just stupid.

Why would you even try to start populating a sever on Kashan? The one map that possibly needs a whole server full to be playable. The inf layer on Kashan is actually quite fun. (BRDM's vs Hummves) which is fine with 32 players.

[hornedviper]

yh i totaly agree skirmish maps like road to konguyen (or somin) and assalt on mestia functioned well with as little as 8-12 players with small intensive squad fights . great fun but no more. ejod desert was a sick map to!

[BloodBane611]

For those players who really want smaller maps, what is wrong with the 16/32 play map sizes?

[quaazi]

Burton;1437144']That's not their attitude at all. If you had access to see "behind the scenes" then you would realise quite how much hard work is put into making these mods happen.
The main Development team simply don't have the time to audit every map to add new modes just because a minority wants it done.

This is where the community comes into it.. You see something that would be good to have in the mod, the Dev team say it's not their priority, so you step upto the plate and do it. They see your hard work, and repay you (sometimes) with [R-TAG]s if you show an interest in working for the mod more in the future.

Bottom line is this.
If you want something in the mod that badly, do some of the legwork. The DEV's have deadlines to meet and schedules to follow. If they started going off the beaten track to audit a map here or there to add an extra layer the mod would quickly get behind, and then low and behold, the community would start crying blue murder because there's not been an update for 6months.

Rock and a hard place.

This is not the first thread in which a dev snaps out a snide comeback of "do it yourself" as an effective and accepted end to any discussion. It's not right. And of course the "we don't get paid" argument. Hell, do you want people to play the mod or not? Because mods generally fall into two categories: one made for personal consumption (amongst a tight group of individuals perhaps) and one for public consumption. As odd as it sounds, the latter should involve feedback and work based on that. Not that I'm saying you guys should implement every feature each forumer ever makes, it's the attitude that's the problem. I don't wanna make suggestions, or even partake in a community in which my views on the game are shot down by a R-XXX with "DIY". Just ignore it, or say how the idea is stupid or unfeasible, but don't adopt that posture. It's understandable when you're making the mod for yourselves, you can tell everyone to bugger their dog in that case. But I don't think you guys want to have a dwindling playerbase. And, yes, it's not like you guys acting like ******** will "kill PR" or set in motion some other type of calamity, but jesus, is it so hard to exercise enough self-control to not verbally f*** your playerbase in the hooah?