Remove AA Lock On alert for IR missiles and other things about AA Missiles

[Jorgee!]

Well... i don't know how are things today on helos and planes, but since i played Lock On Modern Air Combat and Flaming Cliffs 2 years ago, IR Missiles were not known by the target, but them still go to the flares (because of heat).

So what im suggesting here is to

1) Remove AA Lock on sound for handheld AA.
2) Remove AA lock on sound for AA Stinger deploy if they are IR missiles.
3) Make handheld AA and AA Stinger delpoy less efective against planes (i don't think a 800km/h plane can be hitted by a handheld missile if you are over 500mt plus i don't know exactly the speed of the missile, but i don't think it can reach mach 1 beign an infatry portable one).
4) Set max stinger placement to 2 per faction.

What will this bring to us:

1) Realistic AA gameplay.
2) Less AA spam on map.
3) Enforce the use of flares on enemy territory.
4) More realism.

[Rudd]

in apache by ed macy the apache deployed flares automatically when something locked on to it iirc? so some aircraft can detect them? or did it drop chaff upon detection of a radar lock? I can't remember.

[Zrix]

I can only see this working if the choppers get more flares and/or individual flare drops.
6 drops - 3 in, 3 out - is imho not enough if you can't even tell you're being targeted.

[Jorgee!]

Well, in Lock On the only missiles that are detected are radar active.... and not the IR...

If you are in enemy territory you can set auto flares and the other thing which i dont remember name, and you deploy 2 flares + the other thing every 5 seconds.

[Zrix]

Well, in Lock On the only missiles that are detected are radar active.... and not the IR...

If you are in enemy territory you can set auto flares and the other thing which i dont remember name, and you deploy 2 flares + the other thing every 5 seconds.

Chaffs?

[Jorgee!]

Yes i think that is the name... chaffs and flares.

[ediko]

Well... i don't know how are things today on helos and planes, but since i played Lock On Modern Air Combat and Flaming Cliffs 2 years ago, IR Missiles were not known by the target, but them still go to the flares (because of heat).

So what im suggesting here is to

1) Remove AA Lock on sound for handheld AA.
2) Remove AA lock on sound for AA Stinger deploy if they are IR missiles.
3) Make handheld AA and AA Stinger delpoy less efective against planes (i don't think a 800km/h plane can be hitted by a handheld missile if you are over 500mt plus i don't know exactly the speed of the missile, but i don't think it can reach mach 1 beign an infatry portable one).
4) Set max stinger placement to 2 per faction.

What will this bring to us:

1) Realistic AA gameplay.
2) Less AA spam on map.
3) Enforce the use of flares on enemy territory.
4) More realism.

Are you kidding me? All hand held missiles fly at about 750m/s . If you remove the lock on sound for AA how are you going to know that you locked on or the helicopters that they are being targeted? You can't really move your head around as a pilot so situational awareness is much worse than IRL don't you think? And aren't the max aa kits 2 already? Or do you mean aa emplacements. BTW stinger is NOT the only aa in the game, but if you only want to limit the stinger emplacement's that's just fine with me

[ryan d ale]

Not sure if I personally like this idea.

It's pretty easy to not be destroyed by missles. Being hit and losing your passengers is another matter

I don't go AA very often because I'm an AT person really...

I hope other people who like playing as AA alot will contribute to this thread.

[Jorgee!]

Well i mean the emplacements, which are limited to 4 per faction. The one you deploy near a FOB.

And well, 750 m/s is 2700 km/h..... well, maybe was my bad, but still very bad for hitting planes... (im speaking from the experience on Lock on which is the most realistic modern air combat simulator)+ the missile just can't because of the fuel and movement, but still good to hit helicopters.

And for this to have a good effect an turn flare drop key should be implemented so a pilot in mission can forget about it and focus on the objective.

[drs79]

From a personal stand point, I don't see how removing the lock on alert for players using a deployable, or stationary, or asset or airborne based AA unit can be helpful or "more realistic" when in reality when the stinger missile system has a lock on a airborne threat there is a sound? or designation symbol given.

I am not in the military nor am I a pilot, but from watching the Military Channel, Discovery Channel, National Geographic as well as reading, I am damn sure that if a helicopter or jet is being tracked by AA (There is a distinct word that should be used instead of "tracked" but I cannot think of it atm), or if in fact locked on, I know for sure sensors and sounds go off in the cockpit.

Removing the sounds will result in air assets not being used/attack helos exploiting BVR tactics more, and random AA missiles completely missing their intended targets/hitting friendly aircraft in stead.

^My personal opinion, I don't fly but I love when my SL asks me to use either a hand held AA device, or hop in a stationary or when I get the chance to use the Avenger.

[samogon100500]

+1 for this suggestion,but i have some points on this suggestion:
1)Make more FLARE for choppers
2)Make 2-FLARE drop per time(How-5flares per time)
3)Make flare more effective
4)Remove lock-on time on AA

Reasons - IR missiles no have radiation source,thats why they invisible by TVS/Bereza systems!
I have opinion,how Apache detect IR SAW launch - they spotted they by radar on top!
Anyway thats system good for Trans heli,but awful for AH,i think good idea to not remove this indicator on A helos!

[Jorgee!]

From a personal stand point, I don't see how removing the lock on alert for players using a deployable, or stationary, or asset or airborne based AA unit can be helpful or "more realistic" when in reality when the stinger missile system has a lock on a airborne threat there is a sound? or designation symbol given.

I am not in the military nor am I a pilot, but from watching the Military Channel, Discovery Channel, National Geographic as well as reading, I am damn sure that if a helicopter or jet is being tracked by AA (There is a distinct word that should be used instead of "tracked" but I cannot think of it atm), or if in fact locked on, I know for sure sensors and sounds go off in the cockpit.

Removing the sounds will result in air assets not being used/attack helos exploiting BVR tactics more, and random AA missiles completely missing their intended targets/hitting friendly aircraft in stead.

^My personal opinion, I don't fly but I love when my SL asks me to use either a hand held AA device, or hop in a stationary or when I get the chance to use the Avenger.

Well, what i am meaning is not the "lock on" sound for attackers, but the lock on for pilots.
That's because IR missiles are passive and follow heat. Radar active missiles does lock into the jet and keep doing it, doesn't matter heat, and that's what the jet spots and then gives you an alert.

[LithiumFox]

i think if we got TrackIR for PR to work and allowed for more situational awareness.

Also, i think this would make using the AA a more likely idea than people setting up TOWs, thus fixing two birds with one bi-directional rotating circle wrench!

XD random.

[ediko]

Still no I played lock on too don't think your the only one (In fact I played LOMAC gold dcs back shark and pretty much all other noteworthy sims, did you play black shark btw? I was finding lock on so basic and arcade after it ) Anyway the reason why it's so easy for planes to evade missiles is the 3-9 maneuver ( or getting the missile to fly 90 degrees from you so that it loses lock) since that's impossible to represent this in PR why bother? The current system is just fine.

[Jorgee!]

But it is still possible to low the missile performance on jets i think.....

And you know that IR missiles can't be detected by most of air assets.

[Elektro]

If more flares are added: Sure, but air to air lock should always give out a warning

And you know that IR missiles can't be detected by most of air assets.

And you know that most air assests can engage from long distances via radar IRL

[Drunkenup]

Most helos do have a active missile approach warning. The AAR-47 UV based missile approach system, which provides a 360 degree detection area, alone is installed on most American helicopters, the Huey, Chinook, H-60 variants, and the APR-39 also covers IR/RF threats on a multitude of rotary wing assets. I think the system is fine as it is.

[weixman]

Most new combat aircraft have IR detectors... (A-10C; Su-25T..)



Edit: What Drunkenup said

[weixman]

im speaking from the experience on Lock on which is the most realistic modern air combat simulator.

I assume you haven`t heard of Falcon 4 ?

[Elektro]

I assume you haven`t heard of Falcon 4 ?

I thought the RWR only activated on radar seeking missiles?

Edit:

I was wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directiona ... r_Measures
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... aaq-24.htm