SL actions

[DenvH]

The most important role for the squad leader is leading the squad(holding the pack together), spotting and relay his information to the CO or other squads since CO's aren't that common (they often only use it for the area attack and then quit again).

The SL gets less kills by doing the above, but his squad mates will make up for this loss, simply because they work together now and kill more easily that way.

But you need the right people to lead a squad, not everyone is a leader.. I don't always feel like leading a squad myself, and sometimes just start a 2 man squad with a friend so we can take a medic kit and kill some FOB's

I never lock it however, so anyone is free to join, but at those times I will most likely be leading as a medic, placing markers for my bud's GL..

[Rudd]

there is no point in sticking together as a squad,

if this is true mate then the problem lies there.

if a squad that sticks together their survivability increases a thousand fold....if there is no advantage in sticking together then a spawnpoint isn't going to change anything.

between firebases, APCs and transport helicopters there is plenty to get you back to your squad and the fight.

[Tim270]

Imo the rallypoint is so weak and useless that often there is no point in taking officer kit, some other kit can often be alot more usefull than the officer kit. Infact rallypoint is so useless that many players have realised that there is no point in sticking together as a squad,

Going to have to disagree with a lot of that.

The rally has proved invaluable on many occasions for me. For example when most of your squad gets wiped out, revives are not possible and you dont want to have to walk all the way again from a fob. Drop a rally and have a full squad with you again . Also, as a SL its a very useful way to keep the squad together when new people join. Someone who joins my squad and spawns 1k away and starts doing his own thing is no use to my squad and will earn a kick.

Players who do not stick together are what I like best to fight against. As they rarely cover each other it means I can rack up a awesome infantry KDR. And as they are usually spread out it deceases the likely-hood of a revive - Losing the enemy team even more tickets faster.

The rally point should not be viewed as a spawn point as such. More of a emergency tool that is useful to have.

The SL really is not useless at all... A side-arm, 3 patches, soflam, radio etc. Probably the most useful kit in the whole mod.

[dtacs]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Rudd;1452756']
if a squad that sticks together their survivability increases a thousand fold...[/quote]
Unfortunately enough that isn't entirely true. A single SAW, ninja specialist or the like can easily take out the squad using apparently superior tactics and teamwork.

Power in numbers sure, but PR is such a roulette that most of the time the baddie isn't sticking with his own group and happens to get a lucky break.

Surely your undervaluing the officer kit a bit there? What about setting down FoBs, what about marking enemies on the map? And the rally, whilst not as useful as in previous versions, is still more than worth taking an officer kit for. Especially since, as Tom pointed out, what are your SMs there for if not to fill out all the necessary roles?

Honestly it isn't, as alot of the time a random lone wolf can ruin rally placement and cause you to run and run and run till it can be placed.

Marking the map is inherently pointless with the addition of mumble SL chat and a half decent commander, in addition to typing on teamchat. Plus, the marked doesn't move with the enemy.

If you're about to build a FOB, then there is obviously a kit nearby that you can request an officer. For the record I never take any other kit as a squad leader but situations arise when you realize that another grenadier or marksman would be much more useful.

[quote="Nagard""]Some DEV called it the "Special Kits for Special People Syndrome". I think that pretty much sums it up...[/quote]
That was me who said that in one of the combat engy kits on Insurgency threads. But I'm not a dev...yet

[Jaymz]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Deer;1451789']Imo the rallypoint is so weak and useless that often there is no point in taking officer kit, some other kit can often be alot more usefull than the officer kit.[/quote]

The ability to spot, call for pickups/support, call in Area Attacks, place FO's, 50cal's, ATGM's (and Mortars in the new release) not tickle your fancy?

Deer;1451789']Also not having squad-spawn makes squad spread around automaticly, much efford is needed if you wish to keep squad together and its really not worth the efford.

You mean actually leading the squad? Nothing in PR is more worth the effort than that.

[quote="dtacs""]Unfortunately enough that isn't entirely true. A single SAW, ninja specialist or the like can easily take out the squad using apparently superior tactics and teamwork.[/quote]

In my experience, the ratio of winning/losing those situations is always in favour of the squad.

[dtacs]

Ditto, but its still happening at an alarming rate. People may blame this on 'not watching your sector' or similar excuse but lone wolfing is such a rewarding experience (shotgunning a whole squad, cache ninja'ing) that some people find it a valid way to play the game.

[Jaymz]

Ditto, but its still happening at an alarming rate. People may blame this on 'not watching your sector' or similar excuse but lone wolfing is such a rewarding experience (shotgunning a whole squad, cache ninja'ing) that some people find it a valid way to play the game.

I've had that happen a few times and Voip tends to be a big culprit. One guy goes down, he starts yelling in voip that he's been shot which lowers all in-game sounds for everyone else so they can't tell where the fire is coming from. In those situations, the lone wolf wins. Voip is the lone wolf's deadliest weapon

I've been in many situations where voip has gotten my squad killed but I've been in more where mumble has saved us.

As for caches, won't be anywhere near as easy to ninja them in 0.95.

[dtacs]

As for caches, won't be anywhere near as easy to ninja them in 0.95.

THE BEANS, SPILL EM. We have ways to make you talk.

[chrisweb89]

That sounds awesome about the caches, its so annoyign when 1 dingle guy can kill it even after you kill wave after wave.

[Psyko]

squad leader kit is strong but comes with its weaknesses. the mainone, is the distraction of muppets in your squad. secondly, your as loud as everyone else on your team, thirdly your nearly always standing up staring at somthing stupid with your big fat head in the open.

[PLODDITHANLEY]

As for caches, won't be anywhere near as easy to ninja them in 0.95.

Now needs 10 incendiary grenades?

[killonsight95]

Now needs 10 incendiary grenades?

probs only destroyed by incredaries and only destroyed when 5 or more people are near it?

[Deer]

Between firebases, APCs and transport helicopters there is plenty to get you back to your squad and the fight.

Not all players wants to get back to their squad, many knowingly likes soloing more, and some are newbies, and many can do teamwork but they are just fine without it as well... also lack of squadleaders kinda forces alot of players to solo.
Harder it is for ppl to stay together with their squad --> more they think something like this "meh since im having more fun here ramboing on my own, why should i see lots of efford in order to get back to my squad, whats the point". Especially if the squad doesnt have good leader. Imo there is serious lack of leaders, its so stressfull role.

You mean actually leading the squad? Nothing in PR is more worth the effort than that.

Leading squad and making squad stick together are 2 different things, you can lead and make squad do teamwork even if all 6 squad members are far from eachothers. And my point was that there is no point sticking together now when rallypoint is gone, ramboing is effective, especially when these rambos are doing teamwork. They are just no longer together as they used to be with old rallypoint system.

However not everyone are _actively_ looking for teamwork, some ppl do it only when opportunity for it has been brought right in front of their nose, but else they are just fine on their own. If there is no squadleader micromanaging squad members every single footstep, these kind of ppl wont do teamwork.. and because of we are having serious lack of squadleaders, we have lots of squads full of these "passive" teamworkers who are fine without teamwork but would do it if someone would lead them.

If a squad that sticks together their survivability increases a thousand fold....if there is no advantage in sticking together then a spawnpoint isn't going to change anything.

Squad spawnpoint had ability to keep squads together more, it didnt matter did they want to stay together or not, they just did, half-automaticly.
This made passive teamworkers do teamwork much much more, they didnt need "good" squadleader in order to be near eachothers, crappy leader could keep squads together as well... and when these passive teamworkers are near eachothers, they start doing teamwork. Now there is no squad spawn keeping them together and we simply dont have enough good squadleaders to keep these kind of squads together and therefore there is many squads with no teamwork/leadership.