Seeing the Deviation Cone in Training

[communistman]

Pretty unexciting suggestion, but I think it will help everybody in the PR community, from the experienced to the totally new.

Many players, new and old, don't really have a feel for the deviation system in PR and many complain about it, constantly bothering me on VOIP about how BS that shot was and how deviation is frustrating them, etc.

I think everyone knows what it is, and some general things about it (like moving while aimed in disrupts your settle, jumping to prone from a run greatly explodes your deviation cone, etc.) but people tend to complain because they aren't sure of just how long each weapon/posture/circumstance takes to settle your aim. So why not add a training mode (or re-add? wasn't there a training mode before?), or an option to local server mode, that shows you your deviation cone, ala when you aim a HAT launcher in-game?

After all, a real combatant would know when his aim has steadied, whereas in PR you have to make a quick calculation in your head about how long your settle time should be.

This new option allows players to familiarize themselves with deviation and just how much it applies and in which situations, with all of the available weapons. I for one would welcome this option and restrain myself every time I died due to bad aim in-game, knowing that I thoroughly understand just how each weapon settles under all circumstances, and can no longer blame the unpredictable deviation system.

[cyberzomby]

After all, a real combatant would know when his aim has steadied, whereas in PR you have to make a quick calculation in your head about how long your settle time should be.

Yea that could be usefull. Altough I have to say (I like these discussions ^-^ so nothing personal ^-^) that if you know how the system works its the same (I imagine no experience but metal Airsoft replica's) sholdering and aiming a real weapon. Just saying that I dont calculate how many seconds I was aimed. I only do that with LAT weapons and grenadiers. With my rifle I just know when I would be sighted in long enough.

You can either decide to fire of quick shots straight from sighting in to surpress or aim longer and more accurate (in real life) to try and take out the target. There was a video on youtube showing the deviation but I cant find it now

But to get back to your suggestion Just show the crosshairs for everyone is what you are talking about. That might be a good addition.

[Johncro]

Many players, new and old, don't really have a feel for the deviation system in PR

I don't been playing since.....I don't remember.. But its something that needs to be acquired... Practice takes perfect

[Redamare]

Uhmmm.... what could be done is like how the normal BF2 Crosshairs work .... have an indicator on the side of the screen or somthing .. Or like how the HAT kit works you see crosshairs in the center of the screen telling you when it is stable.

[communistman]

...I dont calculate how many seconds I was aimed. I only do that with LAT weapons and grenadiers. With my rifle I just know when I would be sighted in long enough.

Sure, many people have played long enough to know how long they have to aim at something, but I was more interested in experimenting with deviation in close-quarters in an urban environment, for example: When you enter a room or are cornering with the weapon shouldered, just how much deviation is going on there? How about versus when you are crouched? How much does your weapon deviate when you are prone and swing your aim left 45 degrees at this, or that rate?

It's not exactly crucial, but I think it would be a great familiarization tool for all players, and experimenting with how deviation works under certain conditions will help you effectively prepare and train for those situations. I've been playing since January and I think I'd learn a lot playing around with this in a training situation, I could adjust and fine-tune my shooting habits to align more closely with how the game actually works, versus what's intuitive to me.

But to get back to your suggestion Just show the crosshairs for everyone is what you are talking about. That might be a good addition.

Essentially, yes.

[Bringerof_D]

wasn't there something in the dev blogs about a HUD bar being implemented for that?

[Zoddom]

wasn't there something in the dev blogs about a HUD bar being implemented for that?

i think that was about the sniper rifle

[Herbiie]

After all, a real combatant would know when his aim has steadied, whereas in PR you have to make a quick calculation in your head about how long your settle time should be.

Deviation represents the soldier's breathing - when you're moving around your breath gets up which makes a huge difference to your firing, it doesn't stop you from shooting just makes it less accurate - real soldiers wont wait for their breath to "settle" unless they've been instructed to do so via the fire control orders.

I think it would be good so that newer players get a feel for deviation, but only in Co-Op mode (Or in Training if Training ever makes a return please god bring it back).

[Kingy]

The more used you get to the game the better and faster you can judge deviation. The more often you practice with a real weapon in combat situations and in trainings in the military - the more you become used to and the more effecient you are with that weapon. Get my point?

Wouldnt this also be a lot of work, recreating the 3D sight for each gun (so as to get the deviation settling cone) and implementing it only for this training mode seems low on the list of priorities for me in PR
Anyway shouldn't we quit suggesting things for a while now at least until the next version of PR has been out for sometime?

[dunem666]

WHO needs spiner deviation meter?

press 3 and you get an audiable meter.

[communistman]

The more used you get to the game the better and faster you can judge deviation. The more often you practice with a real weapon in combat situations and in trainings in the military - the more you become used to and the more effecient you are with that weapon. Get my point?

I think I get what you mean, but you're point doesn't seem right. You're saying that a soldier learns his weapon after training with it and handling it, and in PR, people should become familiarized with the weapons after getting owned in-game by better players? In reality, wouldn't all soldiers be knowledgeable of their weapons as they go into combat? Combat like whats experienced in PR online servers?

Regardless of whether or not the above is a good assessment, Of course every player will become better at everything with time and experience, I'm suggesting a new tool that will help new players understand and appreciate the effects of deviation in PR, and will help older PR players adjust and fine-tune their own techniques--like I said before--so how we operate in-game will more closely resemble the way the game works instead of how we believe it does.

In other words, the way we shoot will be more informed, so people won't get all pissy when they don't understand why their shots are flying left and right in this situation, or that, etc.

Wouldnt this also be a lot of work, recreating the 3D sight for each gun (so as to get the deviation settling cone) and implementing it only for this training mode...

Not sure what the difficulty would be with 3D sights, I wouldn't know if there are technical issues there. But, What I'm suggesting could be as simple as adding an option in the options menu (or when starting a coop game) to show the VBF2 crosshairs (crosshairs that now settle according to the PR deviation system)

[Herbiie]

WHO needs spiner deviation meter?

A... Spiner... deviation meter....

Don't type when drunk dunem!!!

Kingy - I agree with communistman here, PR has a relatively steep learning curve as it is, everything should be done to help new players.

Soldiers will be used to their weapon way before they are deployed, before infact they even finish their basic training. Co-Op mode has replaced the Training mode to help new players understand the game more, so why not have a deviation meter like with the HAT on everything? It couldn't hurt anyone except a few Bots!

[=Toasted=]

In other words, the way we shoot will be more informed, so people won't get all pissy when they don't understand why their shots are flying left and right in this situation, or that, etc.

Although I agree it would be nice for new players to get a feel for the system in COOP, But on the other hand, I think it would just add to the confusion once players enter an Online server. -"WHY CANT I SEE MY SIGHTS?!?!" ect.

I myself never really had a big problem with learning and adapting to the deviation, as it sorta just came naturally to me. (I guess my slower and cautious playing style for once actually helped me in a game).

Learning the deviation system really is a transition that players themselves have to make on their own, without outside influences, until they can instinctively say "okay, that was long enough for this to be a pretty precise shot". If they are getting that pissed off about it, maybe it is time for them to try a different game.

[tommytgun]

Very good suggestion, but it is more-likely-than-not not possible on the BF2 engine.

[Rabbit]

Uhmmm.... what could be done is like how the normal BF2 Crosshairs work .... have an indicator on the side of the screen or somthing .. Or like how the HAT kit works you see crosshairs in the center of the screen telling you when it is stable.

I like this idea the best.

[communistman]

Very good suggestion, but it is more-likely-than-not not possible on the BF2 engine.

That seems kinda ridiculous to say, considering you could simply(?) reintroduce the VBF2 crosshairs, or use the exact same system that the HAT weapons use in-game right now.

[ComradeHX]

In reality, wouldn't all soldiers be knowledgeable of their weapons as they go into combat? Combat like whats experienced in PR online servers?

In reality, soldiers do not skip training(server...) and go straight for deployment(server)...

See where I am getting at?

Anyway, Vbf2 crosshair would do nicely.

[tommytgun]

That seems kinda ridiculous to say, considering you could simply(?) reintroduce the VBF2 crosshairs, or use the exact same system that the HAT weapons use in-game right now.

.............never thought of that GOOD IDEA

[Ford_Jam]

.............never thought of that GOOD IDEA

It really isnt.

Along with the ACOG/Iron sight switching and new grenadier sights presented by Mosquil on Youtube, there was a small deviation indicator on the bottom right hand corner of the HUD IIRC

[ryan d ale]

Sounds like a good idea to have this in training only.