Civilian Python Rules

[dunem666]

Shotguns arrest civilians? Still completly defeating the point of having an "arrest" rule.

I would like to suggest this be removed to increase gameplay on insurgency and make people use collaborator more often.

If this isnt possible then how would turning the shotgun arrest off in python for just 1 server? would this complicate the server liscense?

[nater]

Shotguns arrest civilians? Still completly defeating the point of having an "arrest" rule.

I would like to suggest this be removed to increase gameplay on insurgency and make people use collaborator more often.

If this isnt possible then how would turning the shotgun arrest off in python for just 1 server? would this complicate the server liscense?

They count as bean-bags because they don't hurt anyone past 50m. Realistic if you ask me.

[Dev1200]

Shotguns arrest civilians? Still completly defeating the point of having an "arrest" rule.

I would like to suggest this be removed to increase gameplay on insurgency and make people use collaborator more often.

If this isnt possible then how would turning the shotgun arrest off in python for just 1 server? would this complicate the server liscense?

Civi in middle of water = impossible to legally kill.

[Redamare]

yeah there is always a catch to everything ... the water get away is quite annoying but unless somthing can be coded to shoot people in water = arrest then there isnt a whole lot we can do about it ... I think we need to brain storm some more on the topic

[Nagard]

Works well.. Why change it at all cost?

Generally I'd say it's allright the way it is and trust me I wouldn't play on your server if you would remove the shotgun arrest.

Ever tried to get a collaborator from his roof (water already mentioned) it is nearly impossible without bringing a shotgun to bear.

So as long as there are people exploiting the system there is no way you can remove those workarounds without destroying gameplay.

[Turner]

Is it impossible to make it "Out of Bounds" for civvies to enter water?

[DevilDog812]

Is it impossible to make it "Out of Bounds" for civvies to enter water?

they already start bleeding out when they enter water iirc

[McBumLuv]

Is it impossible to make it "Out of Bounds" for civvies to enter water?

Why? Why is there this obsession that civies *must* always be vulnerable?

A civy is already taking extra firepower from the team and is useless if hiding in an inaccesible position to the BluFor, that's already enough of a deterence to get surrounded.

[Nakata]

I think the better option is 2 specialist kit. One with normal charge - that will kill the enemy like any other weapon. And the other with non-lethal charge - this one arrest any insurgent, like happens today.

-- Dont have more space for regular kits: Use the weapon change system of BF2v. The one that change the regular weapon to a unlocked weapon. I think Forgotten Hope 2 (Bf2 mod) use this system.

[Vanya]

One with normal charge - that will kill the enemy like any other weapon. And the other with non-lethal charge.

If i recall that is how it use to be.

You wouldn't use a bean bag gun on someone that is taking shots at you with an AK would you? So having it arrest doesn't make sense to me.

I'm all for making it so the shotty does not count as an arrest. That or make the Specialist kit special? I wouldn't mind seeing it being a limited kid, one per squad.

[ComradeHX]

I think the better option is 2 specialist kit. One with normal charge - that will kill the enemy like any other weapon. And the other with non-lethal charge - this one arrest any insurgent, like happens today.

-- Dont have more space for regular kits: Use the weapon change system of BF2v. The one that change the regular weapon to a unlocked weapon. I think Forgotten Hope 2 (Bf2 mod) use this system.

FH2 TL uses a different system, and they ONLY did for TL for that reason...

We can make Specialist kit into a requestable one though.

[Nagard]

Limiting the Specialist would make sense, but to quote McBumLuv:

Why? Why is there this obsession that civies *must* always be vulnerable?

A civy is already taking extra firepower from the team and is useless if hiding in an inaccesible position to the BluFor, that's already enough of a deterence to get surrounded.

Apparently the civi does not only draw firepower from your team. He also draws firepower from the enemy.
The civi can overwatch the enemies movement and therefore allow the insurgents to lay down devastating ambushes. This forces the Blufor to "arrest" civis or at least scare them away. If the civi now gets into a position where he can not be harmed by the Blufor he is a source of information that WILL have disastrous results for the Blufor.

This is a tactical advantage which some players don't realize because they count strength only in the number of guns a team is carrieing.

My grandfather was actually an army active in the Bundeswehr and he told me that knowledge is one of the most valuable ressources on the battlefield.

The civi is an invaluable asset if used wisely. This power needs it's drawbacks and as I already mentioned I remember a time where a civi on a rooftop forced a squadleader to choose between ordering someone to shoot the civi or withdraw cancelling an attack because this lone civi could guide RPGs and other incoming fire precisely into Blufor soldiers.

[ComradeHX]

Limiting the Specialist would make sense, but to quote McBumLuv:



Apparently the civi does not only draw firepower from your team. He also draws firepower from the enemy.
The civi can overwatch the enemies movement and therefore allow the insurgents to lay down devastating ambushes. This forces the Blufor to "arrest" civis or at least scare them away. If the civi now gets into a position where he can not be harmed by the Blufor he is a source of information that WILL have disastrous results for the Blufor.

This is a tactical advantage which some players don't realize because they count strength only in the number of guns a team is carrieing.

My grandfather was actually an army active in the Bundeswehr and he told me that knowledge is one of the most valuable ressources on the battlefield.

The civi is an invaluable asset if used wisely. This power needs it's drawbacks and as I already mentioned I remember a time where a civi on a rooftop forced a squadleader to choose between ordering someone to shoot the civi or withdraw cancelling an attack because this lone civi could guide RPGs and other incoming fire precisely into Blufor soldiers.

I believe that in reality, conventional armies do not arrest EVERY civilian on the street; even one of those civilians not arrested could mean information for insurgents.

Currently, civies are very fun to play.

BluFor chasing them onto ropes = lol (get on top of building, press G... watch that guy fall to death).

I would like to have them remain that way, since insurgents do not have UAV and too many Civies will result in decreased firepower.

[Imchicken1]

IIRC, the shotty was only made able to arrest civi's because of the water weapon inability, but the civi now bleeds while in the water. Plus civi's have a lot less sprint endurance than soldiers. I say get rid of the shotgun arrest ability, as there is no place a civi can hide (except for the insurgent main). If there's one on the roof, use a rope, and have a medic standing by on the ground if he decides to pull the rope on you.

Specialist kit will be requestable next patch iirc

[Silly_Savage]

Yes, the specialist kit will be limited.

[illidur]

shotty arrest is not needed. if the civi is too good without the shotty arrest, (which i think its not) decrease the civi's abilitys (like the grapple hook).

the rope doesn't have to be on the civi anymore if its going to be played either way. wasn't this added to increase player's will to play that class?

I have a really good question.........

why doesn't the civi class spawn innocent? that would fix one really gay thing that happens. SPAWN RAPING a hideout from a distance.

[Turner]

they already start bleeding out when they enter water iirc

No, I mean like, kill them if they get out in 5 seconds

[killonsight95]

shotty arrest is not needed. if the civi is too good without the shotty arrest, (which i think its not) decrease the civi's abilitys (like the grapple hook).

the rope doesn't have to be on the civi anymore if its going to be played either way. wasn't this added to increase player's will to play that class?

I have a really good question.........

why doesn't the civi class spawn innocent? that would fix one really gay thing that happens. SPAWN RAPING a hideout from a distance.

to answer first Q its because of unableness to clib over fences like irl then the ropes is needed, also put the hideout somewhere where long rnage shots arn't availble.

[Herbiie]

I believe that in reality, conventional armies do not arrest EVERY civilian on the street; even one of those civilians not arrested could mean information for insurgents.

Currently, civies are very fun to play.

BluFor chasing them onto ropes = lol (get on top of building, press G... watch that guy fall to death).

I would like to have them remain that way, since insurgents do not have UAV and too many Civies will result in decreased firepower.

You cannot play as a Civilian in PR though. Just a collaborator - there's a big difference, a civvi is innocent, collaborator should be arrested.

The Drop-Kit thing along with people actually starting to not get civvis means that you can get some quite realistic insurgent tactics going on though, more than once I've fired an AK into a BluFor Squad, ran into a building, drop my kit & run away, I see BluFor Again I stick my hands up. Sure the squad i fired at sometimes finds my kit but that's quite realistic too, 'tis great fun.

The Shotgun's come from the breaching slug (which was removed because you could beat snipers with it) which is just a big bean bag type of thing & is similar to the type of ammunition used to suppress riots.

As for the grapples imho ALL insurgents should get grapples - they're supposed to be able to fire from anywhere, but the BluFor have more grapples than the Insurgents so can get to places the ins. can't, which is wrong

[quaazi]

Instead of grapples for everyone they should make buildings actually accessible, but thats another problem for another day when this gargantuan effort can be started.

Civis are great the way they are. The range of the shotgun makes it effective in only really close quarters, and civis can just HIDE behind things to evade the shotgun. Or you know, run away. I play civie often and it's a great job, intel, decieveing the enemy, logistics (healing and grapple)... it's the perfect support role.