v0.95 scripts for no enemy kits

[Alucard]

Added code that prevents players from using enemy kits other than rifleman variants indefinitely (rifleman, rifleman specialist, rifleman at, rifleman ap). It gives a message for 15-20 seconds (enough time to get ammo/field dressings), then it blacks out the screen for 15 seconds more after which it kills the player if he doesn't drop it.

now im all for this when it comes to INS and not engi's or HAT's being used by the insurgents however this does not make any sense when it comes to things such as marksmen kits, sniper kits etc. stealing an enemy sniper/marksmen is one of the things i do best on INS why are we making it so that the insurgents can't use a M24 or m14 sure they may be inexperienced when firing it however it is not realistic to say that they couldn't fire it accurately...... am i the only one thats sad about this?

[joethepro36]

I think it's a great change, armies very rarely take up their opponent's small arms in modern warfare and only then out of necessity. As for the effect on gameplay I think I'll reserve judgement until I've played the new version.

[Alucard]

not conventional armies no but insurgents would and do..... im talking about for insurgents that insurgents would try to pick up sniper rifles and marksmen rifles...

[Silly_Savage]

My favorite change!

For those of you bitchin' about it, you can direct your discontent towards me as I was the one who suggested it.

[Alucard]

for kits such as engie's and hat's on INS it is good but come on i fired a m24 in real life it toke me 2 shots to get use to it and the bullet drop at 700m's....... its not that hard to use a sniper kit and im sure they could figure it out.......

[DevilDog812]

My favorite change!

For those of you bitchin' about it, you can direct your discontent towards me as I was the one who suggested it.

rawr. i like the idea, and ill wait until i play it to agree/disagree with it, but i have a question: wont it make snipers/HATs/SAWs/CEs etc more careless?

however, i know that most coalition forces wouldnt be able to use the enemies weapons in real life, except maybe for fun shooting. however, insurgents and unconventional forces love little weapons upgrades. i guess its only fair to make it so neither can use them

[Sidewinder Zulu]

Hmm, so that means insurgents can no longer use US special kits like Sniper or HAT?
Well, I suppose that's realistsic, but it's just going to make people dislike playing as insurgents even more. Part of the reason there was some balance in the firefights between Insurgents and BLUFOR was that the Inusrgents could often get a sniper or SAW to use, which helped balance the gameplay so that the BLUFOR didn't have too much of a technological advantage.
It's unrealistsic, but as has been said by many people here before, balance > realism.

Anyway, I won't be too critical, since I think the idea has some merits. Gonna have to test it out and see what it's like first.
(Originally I thought eliminating the Rally Point was a bad idea, but after I played for a while I totally cahnged by mind )

[Hunt3r]

Sure, maybe a handful of insurgents can use a sniper rifle, but that doesnt mean you should have to attack a cache with 6 SAWs firing at you. Think about it. This is going to make the game a whole lot better.

INS should be able to pick up standard riflemen, officer, marksmen, and sniper kits, imo. Officers are basically just normal riflemen with radios, and pretty-colored smoke. Marksmen and sniper kits are... basically just rifles with scopes on them. Doesn't mean that suddenly insurgents will be struck down by lightning when they pick one up.

[dtacs]

Sure, maybe a handful of insurgents can use a sniper rifle, but that doesnt mean you should have to attack a cache with 6 SAWs firing at you. Think about it. This is going to make the game a whole lot better.

Agreed, one of my favorite changes along with the flag bleed. Its considerably realistic as well in conventional situations, however its obvious that an Insurgent would no doubt pick up a SAW to fire over an AK, we saw that when the US Army pulled out of Korengal and the Taliban managed to get a hold of left over M240's and Mk19 rounds.

[Lange]

Hmm, so that means insurgents can no longer use US special kits like Sniper or HAT?
Well, I suppose that's realistsic, but it's just going to make people dislike playing as insurgents even more. Part of the reason there was some balance in the firefights between Insurgents and BLUFOR was that the Inusrgents could often get a sniper or SAW to use, which helped balance the gameplay so that the BLUFOR didn't have too much of a technological advantage.
It's unrealistsic, but as has been said by many people here before, balance > realism.

Anyway, I won't be too critical, since I think the idea has some merits. Gonna have to test it out and see what it's like first.
(Originally I thought eliminating the Rally Point was a bad idea, but after I played for a while I totally changed by mind )

Personally I thought in insurgency a huge problem was insurgents who got SAW kits and could just camp locations often just making extremely difficult for blueforce, plus just highly unrealistic in that respect. Now its more realistic in the sense insurgents can grab a rifle or two here and there from the bluefor, but can't abuse their entire arsenal against them with all the insurgents rushing to saws, snipers etc. In Iraq in real life it was actually rare that the insurgents got US/coalition equipment so this should make it a little better.

As far a gameplay wise towards the insurgents, they have some weapons updates and new assets to use, so just because they can't abuse bluefor kits anymore probably wont affect the balance much.

I am a little concerned about Bluefor becoming careless with special kits, however with the huge death penalities now we will see. HAT though is pretty much useless anyway gameplay wise on insurgency so you wont see that used much anyway. Sniper/engineer well thats more reasonable.

Sure, maybe a handful of insurgents can use a sniper rifle, but that doesnt mean you should have to attack a cache with 6 SAWs firing at you. Think about it. This is going to make the game a whole lot better.

Along the lines I was thinking and as others have pointed out.

INS should be able to pick up standard riflemen, officer, marksmen, and sniper kits, imo. Officers are basically just normal riflemen with radios, and pretty-colored smoke. Marksmen and sniper kits are... basically just rifles with scopes on them. Doesn't mean that suddenly insurgents will be struck down by lightning when they pick one up.

Actually as far as I understand ins can't use officer or marksmen just Rifleman normal, specialist, LAT, AP, but I could be wrong.

[*UNSTF Drummond]

For me INS is going to die with this change. I love playing insurgent, there's northing like ambushing the British/Americans taking there weapons (upgrading) and preparing for the next attack, and if someone is stupid enough to take a Engi/HAT in then why not have it used against them? Now there's no worrys about losing the kits as everyone knows there's little punishment for losing them.
Taking kits is part of the playability of INS, if you make it harder and harder for the insurgents to fight who's going to want to play as them?
OK I know what's coming it's not realistic for the other side to just pick up any weapon and know how to use it, so does that mean no one can drive a tank ingame till they have had proper training or use an M16 till they have finished boot camp like in America's army?

I'll give it a shot but I'm not liking the idea

[=Toasted=]

My favorite change!

For those of you bitchin' about it, you can direct your discontent towards me as I was the one who suggested it.

Yes! Now everyone in public games will run around with Hat and 1337 Sniper kits in the middle of the city, because they have no worry about loosing their kits to the enemy![sarcasm] YAY! [/sarcasm]


Seriously though, this change is really the only thing I am not really in support of...

[notmyingamename]

people will adjust. i dislike the mechanic right off, however... go blind, then you die? imagination required. it always irked me when the out of bounds start blaring, and you get a 10 second warning from some voice in your head. then you shoot yourself i suppose. anything to stop the voices.

[Lange]

Yes! Now everyone in public games will run around with Hat and 1337 Sniper kits in the middle of the city, because they have no worry about loosing their kits to the enemy![sarcasm] YAY! [/sarcasm]


Seriously though, this change is really the only thing I am not really in support of...

What would of been best, is if they could of differentiated the code between conventional maps and ins. Like on ins ins can't get certain kits like SAW's, and a few others, but can pickup HAT or kits that should have care taken anyway. I do agree that fear of loosing special kits on ins did impliment realistic caution, but also lead to some degree of unrealisitc and unbalanced gameplay on the insurgent side.

Conventional forces vs Conventional maps this change really is warranted because of how annoying it was for opfor to always want bluefor kits because they like them better, and (OH HOLD THE HAT SO THEY CAN'T GET IT!!!) was stupid and unrealistic as well... now thats pretty much done with.

On insurgency he unbalance mainly bluefor kits AND unlimited tickets so having no penality for death plus kits. Insurgents going for SAW's everytime because its the ultimate power kit and other kits not wanted because no teamplay element for them. Things like that if you see where im coming from.

We will see how it plays out but im hoping kits like the HAT because of how useless they are on ins anyway that will be enough to discourage them. Sniper has practical use on ins and so does engineer im not worried about them as much, engineer making endless bomb vehicles was a exploit anyway and shouldn't be part of gameplay.

[Sidewinder Zulu]

Personally I thought in insurgency a huge problem was insurgents who got SAW kits and could just camp locations often just making extremely difficult for blueforce, plus just highly unrealistic in that respect. Now its more realistic in the sense insurgents can grab a rifle or two here and there from the bluefor, but can't abuse their entire arsenal against them with all the insurgents rushing to saws, snipers etc. In Iraq in real life it was actually rare that the insurgents got US/coalition equipment so this should make it a little better.

As far a gameplay wise towards the insurgents, they have some weapons updates and new assets to use, so just because they can't abuse bluefor kits anymore probably wont affect the balance much.

I am a little concerned about Bluefor becoming careless with special kits, however with the huge death penalities now we will see. HAT though is pretty much useless anyway gameplay wise on insurgency so you wont see that used much anyway. Sniper/engineer well thats more reasonable.

True, but they only get the kits through other peolple's mistakes.

If you're attacking a cache that has six SAWs guarding it (You're not exaggerating, I've seen plenty of caches with a ton of SAWs camping them) then that's because some infantry squads are getting killed pretty frequently or some guys are going off Rambo-ing with the SAWs.
I know that sounds harsh, but the insurgents really do need to work and have skill to get limited BLUFOR kits. And they can still be killed while they have those kits, obviously.

Now we're gonna see tons of HATs and stuff used on insurgency against infantry. If we're talking about realism, then that's a problem.

[joethepro36]

Insurgents ever having BLUFOR kits like a HAT, combat engie, AA or other "weird" kits is massively unrealistic. Regardless of outcome in gameplay this change is necessary to make the mod more realistic so it had to happen at some point. Standard rifles are still able to be used by the insurgents and I think that is pretty retarded in terms of realism. Then of course you have the military advisers telling the DEVs to implement the change so it's again probably meant for realism purposes.

And I just love the inevitable "this change has ruined PR/gameplay/insurgency/gameplay facet even though I've yet to play it" that comes with every release. At least it's not as bad as the FURORE over the removal of rally points. Gameplay can be balanced later, for now gents let's not make outlandish claims about the insurgents being crippled by the inability to use advanced weapons. Insurgents have to kill the US to get the kits in the first place, it's not like standard insurgents die in the hundreds in the hopes of getting special kits, the apparent "only good thing" the insurgents can use vs coalition troops.

Oh and I can't be the only guy who felt like throwing his keyboard across the room when you kill two SAW insurgents only to have another kill you?

[Imchicken1]

Honestly, im half and half with this idea. Pro's being that it's not exactly realistic for one side to pick up the others and use it.
Cons being we'll see ALOT more HAT kits and CE's on insurgency. CE's can now be used to their full potential (removal of mines), but there's gonna be infinate HAT sniping, now that people dont have to worry about the insurgents getting it

[Sidewinder Zulu]

Alright, well we can still pick up rifleman kits, which means insurgents still get some optics, grappling hooks, and the occasional LAT, so that's good. Glad they kept that.

Interesting that I don't think I've ever heard anyone ingame complain about this feature, nor saw any recent threads asking for the removal of insurgents ability to pick up kits.
Was this really a big issue? I play on BLUFOR as much as insurgent and I've never been overtly annoyed by it.

That being said, allwoing insurgents to use captured US HAT kits was pretty overpowered. I'm just afaraid that the relativley small number of people who actually play on insurgents instead of quitting or desperatley trying to switch teams is going to decrease substantially now that the "reward" of taking someone's unique kit after you kill them is gone.

But you're right, I'll wait and pass final judgement once I can try it out for myself. I just never reall thought this was that much of an issue.

[dtacs]

CE's can now be used to their full potential (removal of mines), but there's gonna be infinate HAT sniping, now that people dont have to worry about the insurgents getting it

When will people understand this? That doesn't - and never will - happen in PR as its fraudulent to think there isn't IED's or an Insurgent nearby.

EOD teams in PR are a ridiculous claim and its idiotic to take more people away from the fight. What is most likely going to happen is counter-IED'ing with CE's putting C4 on roads that Insurgents would regularly use.