Am I the only gunner in the world that keeps HEAT up?

[Ninja2dan]

sorry but while we our on this topic is MPAT heat?

Technically, the MPAT is a HEAT round. But it's more of a combination between the standard HEAT projectile and a sabot. I assume you are asking about rounds such as the M830A1 or the DM12A1, which actually use the HEAT-MP-T designation.

[Hunt3r]

Technically the MPAT is HEAT with a sabot and the ability to choose between contact and prox fuses.

It can severely damage Bradleys and BMP-3s, most likely to the point of tracking, and will one-shot Spandrels, even if it is not a direct hit, but this is from personal experience. Besides, I don't think any APC or IFV, excluding the ones made from tanks, will be able to take 120mm HEAT.

[Hairysteed]

Depends, if the enemy team has APCs with ATGM I would not allow my tank gunner to drive with HEAT loaded, since it won't kill the APC with 1 HEAT round. But 1 ATGM will kill a tank.

Then that is a mistake on the mod's part! MPAT/HEAT is the preferred round for taking out lightly armored vehicles (APCs and IFVs and anything lighter than MBTs are considered lightly armored. Trucks and jeeps are unarmored, "soft" targets).

[Spartan0189]

For me, it really depends on what I'm going to do, if I'm going to fire onto a heavily populated Firebase of some sorts, HEAT, then for armor and stuff, AP.

[Murphy]

If there is any chance of running into enemy armor always keep AP up! You will feel pretty dumb when you land 4 hits and don't kill the enemy, meanwhile he manages 2 hits in the same time and destroys you.

[Trooper909]

Forgive me but should tanks really be going up vs other tanks in PR?

As said tank vs tank battle depends on who gets the first shot so going anywhere near an area a tank is camping seems silly may as well let a HAT,TOW,Attack chopper,plane deal with the tanks as thay are far better at it than other tanks are.

So keeping HEAT up should be viable if using those tactics IE avoiding other tanks like the plague unless you have a huge advantage.

[kingofthreads]

I only put HEAT up when faced with infantry. Any other point in time where there is a slight possibility of a tank, APC, chopper, etc I will have AP up so that I can be assurred that if my shot hits spot on that vehicle will be feeling the full punch. Same with APCs I almost always have ATGM up.

[Hairysteed]

Forgive me but should tanks really be going up vs other tanks in PR?

If PR wants to reflect reality then yes; The best anti-tank weapon is always another tank!

[CastleBravo]

Then that is a mistake on the mod's part! MPAT/HEAT is the preferred round for taking out lightly armored vehicles (APCs and IFVs and anything lighter than MBTs are considered lightly armored. Trucks and jeeps are unarmored, "soft" targets).

In reality APFSDS isn't as effective against soft targets as it is against MBTs. It is after all just a really damn big bullet and when it impacts a soft target it will simply pass straight through it without expending very much of its energy. You could probably shoot a SABOT though the crew compartment of a HMMWV and only kill the people that were seated in the path of the projectile; if the SABOT doesn't hit the driver or the drivetrain the HMMWV will still be mobile.

When an APFSDS penetrates a tank however most if not all of its kinetic energy is transfered to the tank's armor which gets heated, fragmented, and sprayed into the tank's interior at a high velocity. Most of the behind-armor effects of a SABOT on a tank are caused by pieces of the tank's own armor.

[Hunt3r]

In reality APFSDS isn't as effective against soft targets as it is against MBTs. It is after all just a really damn big bullet and when it impacts a soft target it will simply pass straight through it without expending very much of its energy. You could probably shoot a SABOT though the crew compartment of a HMMWV and only kill the people that were seated in the path of the projectile; if the SABOT doesn't hit the driver or the drivetrain the HMMWV will still be mobile.

When an APFSDS penetrates a tank however most if not all of its kinetic energy is transfered to the tank's armor which gets heated, fragmented, and sprayed into the tank's interior at a high velocity. Most of the behind-armor effects of a SABOT on a tank are caused by pieces of the tank's own armor.

IRL Sabots fly so fast that they behave like shape charges... and therefore are exactly the same in soft target performance as HEAT is. HEAT is just a good deal cheaper. MPAT and conventional HEI, and HEAB produce far better results against soft targets.

[Dev1200]

HEAT is an unreliable round for me, and only use it because of the HE. Against a BMP or any other armored target, I stay with Sabot for the guaranteed kill.

[CastleBravo]

IRL Sabots fly so fast that they behave like shape charges... and therefore are exactly the same in soft target performance as HEAT is. HEAT is just a good deal cheaper. MPAT and conventional HEI, and HEAB produce far better results against soft targets.

Muzzle Velocity:
M829A3 APFSDS-T: 1550m/s
M839A1 HEAT: 1400m/s

Its not just the speed of an APFSDS that makes it lethal, its the fact that it concentrates all of its kinetic energy on a very small area. If the object the penetrator impacts is soft and thin, the rod will pass right throught it without slowing down. If the penetrator does not expend very much energy passing through the target, the effects are much less than they would be if it hit a tank and expended all of its energy.

[CoLdFiRe88]

Glass hit = 73.125% dam. / 1-2 shots <- Yup, you can "one shot" a tank by hitting glass parts (try by yourself if you dont believe me :wink

What do you mean by glass?

[Hunt3r]

What do you mean by glass?

The Abrams' GPS is an area that can be very easily one-shot, it's the rectangular box thing on top of the turret. I'm not sure if they've actually changed it yet though.

[Truism]

HEAT looks damned viable, I've never even considered it, always left it on SABOT and never even tried a HEAT against another tank.

HEAT certainly looks like the best choice.

Muzzle Velocity:
M829A3 APFSDS-T: 1550m/s
M839A1 HEAT: 1400m/s

Its not just the speed of an APFSDS that makes it lethal, its the fact that it concentrates all of its kinetic energy on a very small area. If the object the penetrator impacts is soft and thin, the rod will pass right throught it without slowing down. If the penetrator does not expend very much energy passing through the target, the effects are much less than they would be if it hit a tank and expended all of its energy.

The M839A1 is a hybrid SABOT/HEAT round, a traditional HEAT round only travels at about 1100m/s. Of course I use the term only lightly.

[Hunt3r]

Well, I'm considering turning back to staying with sabot loaded, mostly because it's far more effective against TOW emplacements, and most of what kills you probably will require sabot. If you see enemy HAT then you're best off popping smoke and engaging in thermal.

[Murphy]

Well I remember reading a quote about armors main weapon being it's mg not the cannon. The article goes on to bring up the point that indeed tanks are best used as anti-infantry due to their overwhelming and intimidating (shock and awe) factor, which doesn't translate too well in PR giving you loads of 7.62 kills.

Keeping that in mind you should have AP loaded, when you run into soft targets start on them with the coax while loading MPAT/HEAT. Naturally at range you will have time to adjust your munitions accordingly without the need for coax suppression, but against an armored opponent you may already be out of time the moment you've spotted him.

[matthewm5]

aim for the top of a tank turret 1 shot form and sab = 1 kill or 3 if it a fully loaded tank

[EmBra]

Usually I always keep AP loaded, the reason is simple.

With Heat rounds the BF2 engine doesn't always register it as a direct hit if I hit a moving target, say a bombcar or a low flying helicopter.

On several occasions in my earlier tanker days my tank died because a bombcar would not die even though I placed a HEAT round smack in the middle of the car driving towards us (sometimes it looks like the round simply flies through the vehicle doing 0 damage).
AP don't have this problem though, The moving vehicles always takes damage (and die) if they are hit with AP. Heat is buggy and I only use it on infantry.

[XRsyst]

Sort of related, for the SPG-9, which does more dmg to a humvee, frag munitions or HEAT?