TOW/Bradley's TOW changes?

[DankE_SPB]

APCs will always be overshadowed by tanks. If were doing this to the Bradley, why isn't out BMP-3 counterpart being anti-tank-compromised as well?

Because 9M117 and 9M119 missiles are not wire-guided like the TOW/Konkurs, hence vehicles using them shouldn't be stationary to fire them.

Treat the ATGMs on APCs/tank killers as mobile TOWs for self-defence/ambushes and you will be good.

they should be able to fire their wire-guided missiles as soon as the velocity drops below 5 mph or 8 km/h.

3 mph, at least for the original M2

The Bradley is a special exception, but it should only have a time penalty that is realistic, and assumes that both missiles are ready to fire as soon as the launcher raises to it's proper position.

Spandrel also has the launcher deploy thingo, but i'm not sure if it has driving limitations with it in raised position. Nosferatu might have a manual for it, beg him

[Hunt3r]

3 mph, at least for the original M2

I thought that the newer Brads might've had some changes?

[ma21212]

So when a Bradleys moving the TOW launcher moves into the "shut off" position? I dunno about that, whenever you get into a Bradley you see the launcher do its little slide up animation. I would assume irl when a Bradley is moving the launcher would still be in the ready position but the gunner would make sure he would not shoot until the vehicle is stoped. (in PR I would just make the TOW not usable for 2-4 seconds, same thing goes for the other TOW vehicles)

[Hunt3r]

So when a Bradleys moving the TOW launcher moves into the "shut off" position? I dunno about that, whenever you get into a Bradley you see the launcher do its little slide up animation. I would assume irl when a Bradley is moving the launcher would still be in the ready position but the gunner would make sure he would not shoot until the vehicle is stoped.

Yeah, once you move IRL, the Bradley's TOW launcher moves back to it's stowed position that you can see on newly spawned Brads in PR. Once you stop, the launcher will move back up to the ready position that you see when someone gets in the gunner position of the Bradley.

[ma21212]

Yeah, once you move IRL, the Bradley's TOW launcher moves back to it's stowed position that you can see on newly spawned Brads in PR. Once you stop, the launcher will move back up to the ready position that you see when someone gets in the gunner position of the Bradley.

can you give sauce? no offense but that just sounds crazy to me..

[DankE_SPB]

So when a Bradleys moving the TOW launcher moves into the "shut off" position?
can you give sauce? no offense but that just sounds crazy to me..

0.59 - TOW firing, 1.06 - TOW retracts down, and its not even moving.

[chrisweb89]

That video sure doesn't look like it would take 10 seconds to deploy. The amount of time that it takes is just annoying and the fact you cant crawl ahead slowly out of cover to fire without it locking.

[Ford_Jam]

The video only shows the Bradley after it has fired the TOW. For all you know the vehicle has been stationary for five minutes.

I dont get why (and love seeing them be proved wrong) all the armchair generals seem to doubt the MA's so much. What? Do you think they add these changes just for shits and giggles?

[CC-Marley]

DankE_SPB;1475526']0.59 - TOW firing, 1.06 - TOW retracts down, and its not even moving.

Check out 1:48 as well

[ma21212]

Whats the reason for the launcher to go back to the stowed position? it looks like a serious design flaw if you ask me, Bradley sees tank, they have to wait, they die waiting for TOWs to be ready. also does it take 14 seconds for the TOW to deploy? I mean sure the FIRST time you get into the Bradley it should take 14 seconds to arm b/c the thing just started but when youve been inside it for a while it should be much faster dont you think?

[mat552]

Do you think they add these changes just for shits and giggles?

Pretty much.

See, without all the training or years of research to back it up, all we're left with are what is obvious to the observer. The structure the TOW fires out of doesn't look particularly flimsy or delicate, and there are no other obvious reasons it shouldn't be able to get ready to fire while moving (even if slowly). You shouldn't move once you fire it because the wire might snap, then you have no control over it.

It's also frustrating to adapt gameplay wise, because while it's helped people shy from the tank hunter roll, we now have mobile TOW emplacements. All this change seems (to me) to have done is remove the mobility from the IFVs, it didn't modify the intent behind the behavior. Infantry still don't get fire support on a regular basis, and they're still easy to outflank and kill with a H/LAT

[Kain888]

Just adapt it's quite stupid to complain about everything Dev made, even when they have MA and other experienced people that have a knowledge.

IMO you should send some mails to US military to fix Bradleys.

[DankE_SPB]

Whats the reason for the launcher to go back to the stowed position? it looks like a serious design flaw if you ask me

Nothing is flawless.

Pretty much.

See, without all the training or years of research to back it up, all we're left with are what is obvious to the observer. The structure the TOW fires out of doesn't look particularly flimsy or delicate, and there are no other obvious reasons it shouldn't be able to get ready to fire while moving (even if slowly).

Here is an obvious reason - the turning hinges are(or could be) too "flimsy or delicate" so they will break once the vehicle go over a bump, how this sounds to you?

In the video you can see that launcher pod goes down after firing, even though the vehicle is stationary and there is a chance they will need it again, but still they retract it down instead of leaving in ready-to-fire position.

You shouldn't move once you fire it because the wire might snap, then you have no control over it.

You have to stop(almost stop) to fire it irl.

It's also frustrating to adapt gameplay wise, because while it's helped people shy from the tank hunter roll, we now have mobile TOW emplacements.

This is exactly what it is, highly mobile TOW launcher, in case you meet enemy heavy armour, not a "hunt tanks as much as you can" weapon. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean its wrong.

Btw, in all your hating hysteria and demands for sources you guys forgot to provide any backup to your statements, that Bradley can roll around with TOW-launcher deployed, not to mention that game limit applies not only to Bradley but also other vehicles, but for some reason everybody are stuck on it only.
Oh noes, we cant pwn in our 1337 US stuff!!!11!.

[Historyman]

A simple google search points you to M2 and M3 Bradley Fighting Vehicle Systems (BFVS)

Which states:

Two of these missiles are carried ready to fire in a collapsible, armored launch rack on the left of the turret. The Bradley must stop in order to fire these missiles...

And Furthermore

...which are them(sic) reloaded by the Infantrymen in the back of the vehicle, using a special hatch which provides armor protection during the reload operation.

Which means that to achieve perfect reality, not only do you have to stop to fire the missles, but you should also only be able to reload them if someone moves into one of the seats in back.

Lastly, a good youtube video of the Bradley, which shows multiple TOW launches, all from a stationary position

[chrisweb89]

SO noone has answered this yet with exact numbers. What is the actualy IRL time needed to bring the launcher up?

[ma21212]

I counted the video at 2:04, it takes about 6 seconds to stow it away, I would assume its the same more or less for setting it back up. So Im a belever now. The Bradley is fine how it is now (a friend of mine speculated the 7 second thing was added b/c devs thought it was overpowerd with 2 TOWs) turns out its irl. Im a belever.... anyone does anyone know whats the exact time it takes for the Bradley in PR?

[Hotrod525]

The 10-14 second wait time after moving to utilize the TOW missles on vehicles is probably the WORST addition I've seen to this mod. It's a death-trap and makes people not want to use them at all.

Any armor unit you encounter is going to have wasted you by the time your TOW launcher is ready to fire. Your only hope in hell is to set up somewhere and become a TOW sniper.

I understand realism is the goal, but it's still a game guys. This just made a fairly useful asset nearly un-usable in most fast-paced combat scenarios. If we're going to go that far, let's just go ahead and dis-allow respawning. That's realistic.

• 10-14 seconds wait time seems pretty fair to me, since the missile have to move and to set up itself before firing, when they are not used they are design to retract in the cover. And even worst, the BMP3 and the MBT's that have it loaded in a barrel would have to remove it ( if its even possible, i known that in CF its consider live unexploded ordnance as soon as they close the breach. ) store it properly, take the KE/HE round put it back in the breachload and fire.
• Any APC and IFV will avoid any confrontation with tanks whitout having tanks or c.a.s. with them. First, they are no treat to any modern battle tank, and for reason stated above, they dont have 10 seconds in that kind of situation.
• There is a keyword when you do war, virtualy and in real life : Adaptation. Each time we got a new release its always the same thing, people cry about new added thing, but dont even consider if there is a counter-measure already present in-game but non-used at all. If you can't do it in a way, then try something else.
• Dis-allow-ing' respawn for vehicle will also been unrealistic in a way. Of course you can run out of vehicle in the modern battlefield, history prove it in the past, but now in Afghanistan, Canada/UK/WHOEVER do not only have 1 tank, 2 IFV and 20-ish infantry man. They got shitload of stuff, that cannot even be represented in P.R. So yeah its theoricly' possible, but more than likely unfeasable.

Edit : B.T.W. did the marines in the video at 2:00, have is NVG turned on ? LOL

[mat552]

Danke, I was just answering the question honestly, in no way was I attempting to imply I know better than you.

I don't really care one way or the other how the TOW works, because I don't really have an interest in the affairs of IFVs and APCs. I can't usually get support from them when I want it, and infantry are almost always ungrateful for it when I try and provide.

That's all that matters to me.

[kingofthreads]

meh the time seems a bit long but then I know only a few bits and pieces on APCs and tanks. I will say though that at least with the Bradley it seems like the turret locks so you know you can't fire. The PZH 2000 there is no turret lock leading me to think that time is up and firing a dud missile .