Why do people dislike 4km maps?

[ZephyrDark]

I've just been noticing that people really dislike the open terrain 4KM maps such as Yamalia, Iron Eagle, Kashan, Burning Sands, and Wanda Shan.

I know a lot of the newer maps are a little buggy, but I personally find the concept of them to be fantastic. I love the combined arms feel of it, being able to call in CAS, or Armour to support infantry movement.

I am not the biggest fan of CQC in PR. It just isn't very exciting and never seems to turn out in my favour. (i.e. turn a corner to see an enemy soldier, very close quarters so we just both empty our mags. I have a 7.62 rifle so 2 hits will down the enemy. We were less then 5 feet from eachother, he had to reload, and I was emptying my mag on him and no bullet connects. He then shoots me once and I am downed.)

But my question is why do people dislike these maps so much? (I am not saying EVERYONE dislikes them, but that quite a few people do) Do you dislike the longer rounds that tend to come from them? Do you dislike any sorts of long range combat? Dislike armour vs. infantry? Do you not like to crew armour or fly CAS? Explain, and try to be constructive.

[Rhino]

I think for many 4km maps the avg public server dosen't have enough team work on them to make a 4km map fun. On a small map, all you really need is inner squad teamwork to be fun while on a 4km map, your relying much more on other squads to work with you to complete an objective and a lot of the time you can't except that on an avg public server. You really need a mumble only server or a server that strives towards teamwork all the time (or better yet, both) to really get the foundations you need to make a 4km map really enjoyable and most servers simply dont go for that.

When a 4km map is played right, it can easily be the best gameplay you will see in PR but if its played wrong then it turns into a really boring environment where you can't really do much on your own or as a squad that can make a real impact on the battle like you can on a 2km or smaller map.

[burghUK]

In my opinion they tend to take far too long and i like a bit of variety now and then.

[Dougalachi]

I can say that Iron Eagle (somewhat) and Wanda Shan (definitely) are very annoying to play as an armored player. The way the terrain is done damages armored vehicles very quickly once taken off road. In addition, it also makes driving a general pain. Stretching the maps out so far while including moderate elevation changes results in horrible terrain to drive on and fight through. Wanda Shan's elevation taken to a 2km scale would likely be a lot more playable. Iron Eagle doesn't seem to be as bad, possibly due to a lesser number of small abrupt/sharp hills.

[Cossack]

I like 4 km maps. They don't have a lot statics, terrain is good and the main thing for me, its not lagging.

[PatrickLA_CA]

Hmm... I always try to join a server running 4km map , They're my favourite because of CAS and asset whoring

[Haji with a Handgun]

I love 4km maps because they require that you depend on your team for things, and your squad isn't out in it's own little world like on smaller maps. Long range firefights are my favorite type, because you have to actually be a good shot and not just lucky at ranges above 200m.

[Tim270]

Fun for assets, not much fun for infantry. You have a multitude of assets raining down explosives on you constantly. You have to rely on friendlies for transportation. In theorey it sounds great, and in clan battles it is much much better than the smaller maps. However in pub play it can be like running up a hill. Terrible pilots, apcs that dont give transport, people who build fobs on flags than leave the logi truck (the teams most important asset) etc etc. The terrain also looks quite bad while playing infantry. Rubber-banding also seems a hell of a lot more common with them than 2k maps.

[Gore]

I like 4km maps and are glad the smaller ones are being phased out. As long as the 4km maps has urban areas for infantry and not just random forest combat.

[Mora]

Maps like Iron Eagle are my favorite. Also as a side note, the terrain warping fix used on Iron Eagle now that we know it works on dedicated as well, will we see it used on all maps?

[kaufman_23]

i think they are just big for the 64 players playing it. looks like smaler maps tend to be more detailed, much easier to run into the enemy, and prefer infantry over assets

[Elektro]

4km maps become frustrating when there isn't any communication between the different squads within in the team. Especially between Infantry & Transport.

[Wh33lman]

I can say that Iron Eagle (somewhat) and Wanda Shan (definitely) are very annoying to play as an armored player. The way the terrain is done damages armored vehicles very quickly once taken off road. In addition, it also makes driving a general pain. Stretching the maps out so far while including moderate elevation changes results in horrible terrain to drive on and fight through. Wanda Shan's elevation taken to a 2km scale would likely be a lot more playable. Iron Eagle doesn't seem to be as bad, possibly due to a lesser number of small abrupt/sharp hills.

dont blame the map for your shortcomings as a driver. people floor it over the rough terrain without paying any attention to where they're going. if you look carefully, you can find a route that may take an extra minute to get to where your going and your tank wont be a smoking wreak when you get there.

as for the the maps, theyre just too big for a public server. all the air vehicles get crashed, the tanks chase each other around in the middle of nowhere, so infantry are left to walk everywhere.

[Foxxy]

Dont get me wrong I love 4km maps but they just feel to big with only 32 players on each side.

[Tarranauha200]

Peoples say they are big, also not enogh communication. They also say 4km maps are only for armor and infantry will die.
I would love 100km forest map whit only few INF squads and realistic view distance. Well, maybe in PR2...

[Phixion]

The majority of the new maps are armor heavy, which I really dislike. Burning Sands is, along with Kashan, one of the worst maps ever made for infantry. It's far too open and there's no cover on the approach to objectives you either get shot by a tank or mowed down by an AR whilst trying to get there.

How often do you see a tank or APC driving around raping everyone in sight? (thanks thermal!) Anyone seen the scores on some of these vehicles? A guy had 50+ kills and 2 deaths on a server I joined.

When a team is doing bad and there's no transport 4km maps are also a pain as you have to run for what seems like forever, only to get insta killed when you get anywhere near the battle.

I really hope that this issue is addressed in the Arma II version of PR, the maps there are so much bigger, I couldn't imagine having to run for an hour just to get into the area of combat.

There's realism and there's fun, as it is with the current map rotation on the servers it seems like more of a chore to play.

[hobbnob]

Agreed, communication can be a major letdown on the larger maps.
My Example: I made a Heli Trans squad on Kashan a couple of days ago (26/10, NWA server). I was constantly busy ferrying various people (mostly a single sniper who kept getting killed) across the map, using the terrain for AA cover and never taking a direct route. It was going well and I got a second pilot to help out (called Kai, good pilot). After a squad refused to move off a mountain resulting in me crashing when taking off from the mountain I was a bit pissed that my lovely blackhawk had finally crashed after about half an hour of transport work.
Nevertheless we then got a commander who was very bad with communication. I was tasked by him (twice) to pick up a squad who wanted to go right up to the front line. When I'd finished transporting another guy I decided I may as well try it and just hope for the best. Of course we got shot down and I really started to lose respect for the commander and the game got tedious having to wait for the blackhawk to respawn.

We had a good round until communication broke down, which really ruined it for us both

[Dougalachi]

dont blame the map for your shortcomings as a driver. people floor it over the rough terrain without paying any attention to where they're going. if you look carefully, you can find a route that may take an extra minute to get to where your going and your tank wont be a smoking wreak when you get there.

as for the the maps, theyre just too big for a public server. all te air vehicles get crashed, the tank chase each oter around in the middle of nowhere, so infantry are left to walk everywhere.

My opinion is justified, and I am not going to argue with you. This thread is specifically asking why people don't like 4km maps. Try reading the OP next time.

As a general rule, I DO like 4km for the ability of assets and flanking possibilities, as well as de-centralized combat. In maps like the ones I pointed out, there IS a reason to not like some 4km maps, and I believe it is legitimate.
I can't think of another map that has terrain like Wanda Shan's vehicle unfriendly terrain. Definitely a fun-killer when playing armor or driving vehicles. Last time I played that map, I remember people rolling supply trucks several times, and vehicles almost getting stuck in holes on several occasions. Plus the need to repair the vehicle before going into battle...lame.

If the 4km map's terrain is not too outrageous, I usually don't have much of a problem with it (unless it is an over-played map.) Big abrupt changes in terrain height is, in my opinion, best left to 2km and 1km maps.

[Psyrus]

Hmm... I always try to join a server running 4km map , They're my favourite because of CAS and asset whoring

^^^
That's why I don't like them.

i think they are just big for the 64 players playing it. looks like smaler maps tend to be more detailed, much easier to run into the enemy, and prefer infantry over assets

Agree on all the above points

Fun for assets, not much fun for infantry. You have a multitude of assets raining down explosives on you constantly.

Yup.

4km maps (since kashan) have been the asset whore's friend... Infantry feel like they are there as cannon fodder so that the 'big boys' have something to shoot at once they're done with their respective type fights (choppers on choppers, tanks on tanks, planes on planes, choppers on tanks etc). If the pretense of 'combined arms' (inf + armour) were abandoned and there were enough assets for both teams to be completely mechanized then I'd be like fine, knock yourself out... but right now in addition to the above points, the only 4km map I can think of that isn't asset heavy is Iron Ridge, which is horrendously sparse with the amount of caps & action IMO. And I just checked and it turns out that Iron Ridge is 2km... owch!

4km maps feel like they have 2km worth of stuff, spread over an unnecessarily large area seemingly 'because we can' (or the other excuse so that armour can 'flank' kinda like all those recon-giving snipers). I honestly wouldn't mind if 4km maps were made as 2km maps and then the outer areas given some hills for the armour or whatever. So much detail is lost and so much unnecessary trekking is added when 4km comes into the mix... Taking silent eagle for example, the map could easily be shrunk by 75% (to a 2km map) and it would still have fair distances between the flags! Burning Sands is a decent idea of what I mean, with the majority of the stuff contained within a 2x2km area, well detailed with some 'flanking area' on the outskirts for armour. Muttrah vs qinling is a perfect example why 2km > 4km any day [yeah yeah apples and oranges, fine dragonfly/kozelsk vs qinling].

All in all, I see the 4km maps as more as a gimmick and an asset-excuse, and obviously as an inf player I'll be biased against them. That being said, many people enjoy them so while I do moan and groan when they overly dilute the maplist (on the server I play on), I wouldn't dare campaign for their removal as it's not really my place nor my right to impose my gameplay desires upon everyone else... If the mod eventually goes all-4km-asset-whorey, I'll have to cut my losses and move on to something else, but hopefully the inf guys (aka the ones doing the hard yards) still get love in the upcoming patches.

I hope this isn't misconstrued as an affront to the devs who worked hard on the 4km maps (or those mentioned). In life, no matter how you do something or how much of a perfectionist you are... you can't please everyone, and in this case the nature of 4km maps offends me, not so much your particular work (although in some cases I do believe there's significant room for improvement, but again I wouldn't single anything out unless during meaningless rants because I know I can't do any better)

[Cassius]

Because they have not been played a lot and most people quite dont know how to play them, so either one team gets steamrolled by a team who knows the ropes, or both teams do nothing. I have had lotsa fun on 4km maps. A guide is on the way.