Commanders.. .

[Mutherpucker]

Here's a post where you can provide feedback about you'r commander experiences

[Mutherpucker]

And I'll do my own.. (omg I just finished it and really, it's long sorry)

I must first admit my commanding experiences are mostly on muttrah 24/7 with those hog dogs..


Voices -Us fine voice tone, Mec voice: I only use the eye pointer so no sound is heard at all.

Voip -You know, I've been thinking.. what if, *cough* we take out the "send to all" fonction? I've heard so many players yelling about how annoying one or another was, no matter who it was.. no matter what you say, you just annoy people. How bout, we expend the communications, (T) or radio fonction to give more precise "To all" message. And that open the way to an entirely new post as what to put in that menu. But point is, you realise as a commander i cannot pinpoint on the map a sniper whereabout..

Ticket penality -Ok, I understand a commander is not "supposed" to go on the battlefield.. Fact is, I'm on the battlefield.. I want to actively help to win. But I cannot. If I die, here goes 50 points. I suggest 2 new kits to choose when you are commander:

One; A 2 pistols son of a b**** on the field with his men, Patton style!
Two; A radio holder, who still carry a pistol on his side, but rely what he sees before taking his pistol out.

Thing is, I would make both of them to take in the kit pool, meaning, 2 commander kit would be available. Each of the squad leader could launch a shorter timed uav. Maybe only have one at a time and limited number in the crates of reload. One of each only, of course.

The actual "role" of commander.. I would terminate it. I know you guys could not have the ability to play with the actual source code. But, taking the commander out, would it be that much of a deal? Would they agree if it's not possible to do it by yourself to ask them to remove it? I mean, having rights to play deeper in the engine is one thing, taking a module out is another, no?

As for the kit itself, I dunno, .. of course I know!

The 2 pistols thing was a joke, but give him the ability to call artillery or cannon strike, which would be, in fact, coming from actual vehicle, instead of "Area attack", operated by lets say, 2 crew members; 1 at the cannon calibration, one at the driver/50CALgunner position, the last being available as a third crew position..
The artillery/long range cannon team would then have to survive first, move, hide, not attract unecessay attraction, then wait for some position. The patton commander kit holder, would have to target with binoculars the enemy activity seen, then, the cannon operator would receive the x, y position, by chat, simple X:123 Y:456 format, then he would be required to look at his map, TOPOGRAPHIC ONEs, and make make the required math to translate the coordinate with his cannon screen information to output the correct fire fire position.

The X and Y would be given automaticly, the height would have to be looked on the topographic map or by the commander with a height selection menu, just like we select a distance right now, when calling strike or lazing. And then, BOOM, don't (*) with the patton kit...
But let's be clear here, for as long as a vehicle is operational, they have to be able to fire as fast as they can fire OO yes, it would be up to the other team to find and destroy the (doomsday?) vehicle. Search and destroy at his best.. Or find the 2 pistols cowboy on the field if you can.

oh, and lower the ticket penality, make it 5, it's already bigger than most assets and since he need to have a visual contact with the enemy.. you get the picture.

For the second kit. The radio man, well, he would pinpoint, and look at others SL UAV via, a.. LAPTOP item, usable, let's say, only close to a FOB.. or from a FOB asset.This guy must stay close to FOBs. He must have a working FOB to do his job. The rest of the team must defend FOBs even more if they want UAV service.
Make him loose 15 points, it's A LOT of tickets, if a guys doesn't understand that dieing is NOT good with this kit, nothing will. 50 point is way too much since he must stay around FOBs to make his magic.

Not to mention appreciable firefight will happen since the other team know killing that commander is a lot of points, and he has to be around a FOB. The other team have one more better reason to go after FOBs!

-About APC, how bout the apc driver kit and position would give you the "uav" screen too.. just a tought, if you are looking at the screen, at a SL launched UAV(which would be very short timed UAV window), well, you'r good, you took the time to find a nice quite corner (if they are any) then stressed your gunner with the fact you will be sitting ducks for a while, and then synchronize your parking trip with the SL "1 minute UAV".. well, you got my respect buddy. That APC driver deserve that 1 minute UAV sight!

Beside, UAV are tricky beast especially launched from a SL perspective; when you launch oneUAV, you see only, what, 50 metter ahead, maybe more! You have to fly you'r UAV away and make a U turn inside 1 minute AND stay alive long enought to drive it back where you want you'r peak. That's an nice "protect me squad!" occasion for you squad to undertake... "Ok squad! Let's secure that building so I can launch a UAV!" I dunno, it read good doesn't it? I bet it would sound better!

And in the chat:
SL1 just launched a UAV!

The squad leader obviously see what he's doing, the radio commander sees it and pinpoint stuff, and APC drivers can too, hell, CAS pilots should be able to see it if grounded, or hovering! You have the ability to choose different UAV cam feed or, you simply allow 1 UAV at a time.

In short, give the UAV control to SLs instead, give a new perspective to the commander role and make it more efficient communication wize and you just opened a brand new fresh window in this game. IMHO

Kinda feedback/suggestion I was confused where to put it, suggestion kinda came from feedback relocate me if needed!



cheers

[ytman]

I do dislike the fact that the commander must control the UAV and give orders and plan and respond to constant updates on intel.

Many times I get to launch my UAV and while enroute to a position (which is hard to find at times since there is no map marker that shows you where you are on the map) only to respond to a squad, give them orders, place a marker, and then realize I just flew off the map a good couple hundred meters and have no clue how to get back in bounds.

-----

I do enjoy going into the field and still being able to give orders. It gives me a sense of understanding that sitting in the UAV tower 24/7 stole from me.

[maarit]

i played yesterday silent eagle and our squad spotted enemy fob.
we asked help from cas but they refused to destroy that.
so, then one guy from our squad leave the squad,goes commander,put strike at the fob and joins back in squad.

i have seen this happens before that someone just go in commanders place,launch the strike and leaves.
is this good thing?

[Rudd]

is this good thing?

I think so, if no one wants to command at least the team can still get access to the area attack.

[Herbiie]

if no one wants to command

This is the problem, very few people are prepared to command, because it has a reputation of being boring, when it's not.

I do go out in the field, I just don't die. Simples

[Rudd]

This is the problem, very few people are prepared to command, because it has a reputation of being boring, when it's not.

not just that, its just something that alot of people don't want to do, its a responsibility, you have to try and get 9 real people to each lead 5 real people to accomplish goals.

If it goes wrong everyone blames you

so its good that the area attack isnt withheld from a team that has no1 that wants to command

can't force anyone to command, thats a player side change

[Michael_Denmark]

This is the problem, very few people are prepared to command, because it has a reputation of being boring, when it's not.

True words. So many out there have over the years, called it a boring function.

Shooter-players normally call it boring.

The few planner-players our community still have, are not yet "strong" enough, in numbers, so the Shooters get to deploy the discourse of the perception to the function.

Nothing new on that account. Sadly.

But! - that also means that all the good is still to come.

**

In my expereince the PR CO function, is the most difficult to learn playing successfully, in the entire game.

No other PR function embeds the amount of options and knowledge-areas than this function.

It is in fact the only artistic function in the game.

Essentially it is a function deploying a tremendous learning curve in front of everyone trying to learn it successfully.

[PLODDITHANLEY]

I didn't know the CO's death cost so many points....ooops how many is it really?

I don't find it boring atall, quite the contrary, although on a public server it takes half a game until players trust and use a CO.

[Web_cole]

I didn't know the CO's death cost so many points....ooops how many is it really?

I don't find it boring atall, quite the contrary, although on a public server it takes half a game until players trust and use a CO.

I also wasn't really aware of this, I'd heard people say in game that the CO's death cost more tickets, but I assumed it was like 5, or something.

Can anyone give us an accurate number? (Sourced if pos)

[RHYS4190]

I don't like how the commander position been nerfed, like a large ticket penalty when you die might as rap the commander in bubble rap for the good it done. you have to compromise if you want people to command your going to have to make a lot of changes some you won't like but must be done

YOU should be able to command from the front line, i really don't like the attitude that you can't or should not, the best perspective your ever going to get is right there on the ground with every one else you can then follow the action and make changes on the fly right when it happening, Plus there the simple fact you are keeping the player entertained. once you organised your team and given there marching order your no longer needed you can then have a shot at the enemy while you wait for the team to accomplish there object and then give them new instructions.

DO you know how boring commanding is you just sit and base and stare at a blank screen, Plus there's the fact you got no idea what going on down on the ground, UAV's where supposed to give the commander a picture, but they don't do a very good job there absolutely horrible, You should bring back the sat feed from BF2 that was a wonderful thing it gave the commanders a perspective and it was entertaining to watch the mayhem. YOU SHOULD bring it back, if it where to return we would definitely see a lot more people go commander. AND HAVING people go commander and giving orders is worth a arm and a leg and is worth it.

And then there is the fact you can't get kills when your the commander where is the incentive to then go play as commander when you get nothing for it? It just makes you fell like you done nothing and made no contribution, one of the best idea's would be that the commander will reserve kills and points for use of the area attack,

[joethepro36]

IMO there are two things that need to be done for the commander.

1) remove the massive ticket loss, why even leave your cp if you're too much of a risk?

2) Decrease mortars to 15 minutes, arty to 20 minutes and JDAM to 30 mins. Fire support is virtually not in PR at the moment and 10-15 minutes is not too fast to be spammy particulary when even a single squad in iraq would call in support nearly every firefight. (a soldier claimed that on these forums)

[Michael_Denmark]

I don't like how the commander position been nerfed, like a large ticket penalty when you die might as rap the commander in bubble rap for the good it done. you have to compromise if you want people to command your going to have to make a lot of changes some you won't like but must be done

YOU should be able to command from the front line, i really don't like the attitude that you can't or should not, the best perspective your ever going to get is right there on the ground with every one else you can then follow the action and make changes on the fly right when it happening, Plus there the simple fact you are keeping the player entertained. once you organised your team and given there marching order your no longer needed you can then have a shot at the enemy while you wait for the team to accomplish there object and then give them new instructions.

DO you know how boring commanding is you just sit and base and stare at a blank screen, Plus there's the fact you got no idea what going on down on the ground, UAV's where supposed to give the commander a picture, but they don't do a very good job there absolutely horrible, You should bring back the sat feed from BF2 that was a wonderful thing it gave the commanders a perspective and it was entertaining to watch the mayhem. YOU SHOULD bring it back, if it where to return we would definitely see a lot more people go commander. AND HAVING people go commander and giving orders is worth a arm and a leg and is worth it.

And then there is the fact you can't get kills when your the commander where is the incentive to then go play as commander when you get nothing for it? It just makes you fell like you done nothing and made no contribution, one of the best idea's would be that the commander will reserve kills and points for use of the area attack,

The CO function is not boring. Plan. Organise. Communicate.

However, when you dont have a plan or any idea about what to do with your team, then the function can get boring.

So.

Plan.

Organise.

Communicate.

Watch your plan being carried out.

***

The UAV should be removed so the CO would have to count more on the Squad Leader reports.

Players get highly entertained when they feel that a team is working as a body.

Players get entertained when a plan has been formulated, even in big lines only. Players get entertained when they see how they them selfs participate on the operational level in that plan.

[PLODDITHANLEY]

Please someone must know how many tickets a CO's death costs?

I totally agree with Michael Denmark, once your plan is in place you gently make the squads communicate, SQ 7 what's your status, you just act as a comms conduit passing relevant info between squads. If you have CAS then your role is centred around optimizing the CAS squad. Keep an eye on individual squad markers IMHO the most useful CO tool.

[CallousDisregard]

The new addition is Mumble, a CO really needs to be on SL Mumble channel( with Mute key handy ) if you want to collect the most info possible.
Mumble takes a lot of the comms work away from CO and leaves it to individual SL to coordinate their actions.
If you zoom in the mini-map ( default "n" key ) while in the UAV it gives you a much better idea of where you are flying.
It is true that isn't much help if you fly off the edge of the map and have no idea at all where you are but it is better than nothing.

[Mutherpucker]

YOU should be able to command from the front line, i really don't like the attitude that you can't or should not, the best perspective your ever going to get is right there on the ground with every one else you can then follow the action and make changes on the fly right when it happening

I could not have said it better, thx

[Mutherpucker]

why not make the SLs launch those uav, one at a time, for 2 min max, let say the item would be a small laptop that you can weld at will like the headset fonction, giving the squad leader the chance to scout his surrounding, commanders to see live feed, and apc too, I've explained it in my first post

[maarit]

pr is really lacking commanders and that is big problem.
with commander there is teamwork but without it its just squadwork
and this lead often in problem situtiations.

you can deploy 2 AT in team.
so who is gonna tell the team that we need to move that AT in there if not commander?
without it its just word against word.

sq1:"we need to deploy AT here,so sq2 can you burn that AT there that we can deploy here?"
sq2: "NO,we have nice place here."
sq1:"maybe but we got better place here and we need it fast."
sq2 : "NO!.deploy razorwire there or something."
sq1: "you are just bunch of morons."

COMMANDER:"sq1 and sq2,what are you doing there?there is nothing.
you need to go b2kp5 right now...and burn all the deployables cos that is most idiotic place to have them.you guys are bunch of morons."

sq1/sq2:yes sir.

the end....

i think that there should be commander but he can be in regular squad,just that he have power to order players but he dont have to be in commanders role.

[mat552]

Near as I can tell, mumble has entirely supplanted the CO position for nearly every feasible function. The only glaring exception to this rule is people who are far away, but TG has it set up so that SLs should be in a separate channel, where they can force center, making long distance communication and coordination possible. SLs can now set markers themselves, while designed to allow us to get around the 1.5 limitation on markers, it also removed the last unique element from the commander. (Even when had to be at his post, people would run into enemy fire, spawn at main, go CO, drop the area attack, resign and trek back to the fight) I don't really see anything that the commander can do now that the SLs with mumble can't. Very possibly more effectively at that.

The UAV is nice, we did ask for it, and the DEVs did give it to us(thanks guys). It is very frustrating to use in its current implementation, but it's doable.

[CelticSon]

i like beeing commander in other mods like natural-selection or empires. on these mods is the team a 100% loosing team that does not have a commander which leads to the point that every team counts on the commander and is following every of his orders.
in pr, commanders have too few options to affect the game so they are absolutely pointless - thats a really sad fact.
the one and only useful thing a pr commander can do is to coordinate the squads, but everyone who had been commander knows that on 95% of all public games this is a frustrating nightmare because you have ZERO authority to get people doing what you want.
in my point of view every time spent on co-developing at this mod is wasted, its atm the most pointless feature in this game.

a good starting point to improve the commander is to give him more authority so his orders are becoming a MUST DO.