Attack Helicopters too underpowered

[Zoddom]

After mutliple CAS flights in different attack helicopters in 0.95, i still think they are too weak.
Although its a common opinion that flying very high (because only HAT could shoot you then, tanks and TOWs drop out) is a good tactic, its seems imo to have more negative than positive aspects:
- Your visual range is minimal
- You almost have to hover to be able to engage...
- targets that have to be nearly exactly below
- The big distance to the ground makes it difficulty to identify targets and to hit moving ones.

So imo, the best way to use a heli is to fly at an altitude which guarantees a maximum of visual range, so you are able to engage targets which are much farer away. but unfortunatley then you are low enough to be shot by tanks and tows (which seem to be able to see the heli much earlier then the heli sees the targets [sry4english])

It would be better to implement something that gives attack helis the ability to detect and engage targets which are beyond visible range, or to see further than other players.
Its quite unrealistic (imo) that a tank can engage a heli right as early as the heli is able himself to engage the tank. (Due to missing bullet drop // too low visible range to be able to implement a realistic bullet drop for tanks).
one solution could be to lower the max. vertical view angle for ground vehicles even more, though it could be unrealistic.

[Expatriate Gamer]

Bring back BVR!

[Nibbit]

I know helis are weak but the thing about ur tactics, I dont really get what ur saying,

imo

-the thermal vision has greatly improved the choppers way of spotting nme, thermal is awesome and I was able to find nme targets very quick.

-I still love to work with my team to find out where the targets are, laser them and do a run, this is in my opinion the best and safest tactic to do, instead of hovering on your own. high above hoping no HAT will spot u

[Zoddom]

Bring back BVR!

NO! BVR shooting was the lamest thing ever ( I mean the way when no explosions could be seena and heard!)

@nibbit:
ofc thermal sight has made choppers better, but its not enough to spot single infantry men or tows at a distance, youd have to zoom in and then its very hard to cover a big area.
(and: most of my gunners since 0.95 didnt seem to be able to spot enemies faster with thermal sight. i dont know if they were jsut not skilled enough or if its really not THAT good, havnt gunned often myself)

im about to draw an image which shows the different altitudes and view distance and the (imo) optimum height

[Alex6714]

Its better than it was but its still got the two main problems of being imo too vunerable to smaller calibre weapons and the fact that everything in game has the same engagement distance, and often everything on land has a faster velocity.

[Zoddom]

I
too vunerable to smaller calibre weapons and the fact that everything in game has the same engagement distance, and often everything on land has a faster velocity.

hm, i think its okay about the small arms.
as i said, i thik its unrealisit cthat the engage distance of an apc =of a tank=of a heli.

and often everything on land has a faster velocity

dont understand what you meant with that

edit:
i dont know how the thermal sight works (like a ESP hack, or just some colour channel adjustments) but wouldnt it be possible to make thermal look through the distance fog? jsut like the normal smoke grenades. (ofc not jsut deleting the fog, just increase its distance)

[Nibbit]

chopper view is fked on burning sands tho, u have to go so low its rediculous

[Alex6714]

dont understand what you meant with that

Tank shells for example travel alot faster than hellfires for example.

[Zoddom]

Tank shells for example travel alot faster than hellfires for example.

hm well, thats realistic, but due to the max. 1km view distance not very balanced :/
i would vote for adding a bullet drop for tanks .... ~5m on 1000m range or so. just to make it hard to hit a heli directly.

[Alex6714]

hm well, thats realistic,

Ah sure, just with the view distance it adds to the problem, not suggesting to change it.

There are many realistic things lacking that give each asset an advantage, but the thermal and click hellfires make it better at least.

[Zoddom]

Ah sure, just with the view distance it adds to the problem, not suggesting to change it.

There are many realistic things lacking that give each asset an advantage, but the thermal and click hellfires make it better at least.

yes, but in the last time.. i fly more then i gun and it seems theres a lack of good gunners. evryone just wants to gun to make kills and because flying is "too hard" ... but to me it seems gunning is harder . . .
I know you and Mora are an awesome heli team but when i saw your "hellfire" movies in the past i though "hm im quite as good as him", and today it seems MOST gunners i have arent that good/not good enough :/ (imo you should be VERY good in gunning to form a good heli squad which survives for a long time and is usefull to the team)

[Tim270]

To be honest I have found them so much more potent against armour. Pretty much as long as you know where it is you dont really need a laze anymore with thermals.

The choppers do feel a bit slower though? might just be me.

The new missiles make it so much easier for the gunner to fire on the move now also.

But to be honest It is all about how you fly. If you just go out looking for targets you _will_ die. You need a spotter, mumble SL etc to feed you info on your targets or make informed decisions on where to hit based on where friendlies are dying, if you just fly around randomly looking for **** to hit, expect to die.



Note the pro stinger dodge my pilot did at 4:20

[Bufl4x]

One problem is that while anti air vehicles can see aircraft 1300 away and lock at 1200, that aircaft needs to be a lot closer, 600-1000 to see the AA. So there is still BVR involved, just on the other side. I think if the FLIR could see trough the fog, increasing it's view distance by 1-200, that would make up for anti air still having longer range.

[Zoddom]

To be honest I have found them so much more potent against armour. Pretty much as long as you know where it is you dont really need a laze anymore with thermals.

The choppers do feel a bit slower though? might just be me.

The new missiles make it so much easier for the gunner to fire on the move now also.

But to be honest It is all about how you fly. If you just go out looking for targets you _will_ die. You need a spotter, mumble SL etc to feed you info on your targets or make informed decisions on where to hit based on where friendlies are dying, if you just fly around randomly looking for **** to hit, expect to die.



Note the pro stinger dodge my pilot did at 4:20

youre right. but on many public servers, you wont get any targets or lases and that just sucks :/

lol@ 1:25 min, flying NE and firing a shturm to your south... of course!

One problem is that while anti air vehicles can see aircraft 1300 away and lock at 1200, that aircaft needs to be a lot closer, 600-1000 to see the AA. So there is still BVR involved, just on the other side. I think if the FLIR could see trough the fog, increasing it's view distance by 1-200, that would make up for anti air still having longer range.

i see your point. youre totally right, AA has to be superior to attack helis. but helis have to be superior to MBTs and APCs

[Psyrus]

i see your point. youre totally right, AA has to be superior to attack helis. but helis have to be superior to MBTs and APCs

But.... they are... By a huge margin in fact. Of course that's if you use them properly

[Mora]

The problem is just random AA. No matter if the attack chopper squad is good or not, if AA has him in its sights its pretty much over. They freakin pop up everywhere. :/

The attack choppers are hardly able to support their team because there is pretty much always AA at the targets being reported or lased.

And thermals help, sure but everything lights up with it whenever its dead friendly or just a random rock.

Increasing the view distance when FLIR is activated will help to some extent because there is no need to go that close.

[Zoddom]

The problem is just random AA. No matter if the attack chopper squad is good or not, if AA has him in its sights its pretty much over. They freakin pop up everywhere. :/

The attack choppers are hardly able to support their team because there is pretty much always AA at the targets being reported or lased.

And terminals help, sure but everything lights up with it whenever its dead friendly or just a random rock.

Increasing the view distance when FLIR is activated will help to some extent because there is no need to go that close.

yes, but random aa is always a risk factor. therfore cas runs have to be astonishing and fast, and to be able to do it fast you have to be able to spot the target earlier then itself can spot you.
and you meant THERMALS help, not terminals

[Andy[EEF]]

- You almost have to hover to be able to engage...
No you don't.
- targets that have to be right below
What?
- The big distance to the ground makes it difficulty to identify targets and to hit moving ones.
Only if you suck.

Its quite unrealistic (imo) that a tank can engage a heli right as early as the heli is able himself to engage the tank.

If you're doing it right then he wouldn't even see you coming because he'd be too busy focusing on ground targets to hit you. Your fault if you fly predictably and let him see you coming.

It's fine the way it is IMO. It's your fault if a tank has the time to elevate to hit you because you missed the first hellfire or hovered in one spot for too long.

Don't get me wrong, it would be nice to have extra view distance or a radar system like CA has, but it's PR. It wont happen anytime soon if at all. Communicate with your team and you'll suddenly find you live a lot longer. Most of the times the reason attack helicopters go down is because no one communicates with the crew and they go flying in not knowing what they're up against.

[Dev1200]

It's really not difficult to use attack helicopters. Hovering is the worst way to do it. Wait for someone to call a target, fly in, and leave.


If you have the proper team, you can do plenty with the attack chopper

[Rabbit]

I do think a big problem is view distances on levels like Basrah. They need to be increased a lot.