AR kit

[Zyco187]

I understand why the enemy HAT, ARTY, ect cannot be picked up, but why can you not pick up and AR ? All you have to know is how to pull the trigger. Evens out the playing field more often and makes you use real tactics.

[lukeyu2005]

Because AR's are self explanatory. HAT, LAT/ Medic require some training and are not straight forward. All you have to do is watch that Movie "commando" when the inexperienced girl picks up the rocket launcher and fires only to be aiming the wrong direction and blows up a car behind her. LOL.

Yes I know what you mean.
But it takes a lot of training to use a specialized weapon properly. And realistically under the stress of battle you are not going to be able to figure out what to do. So just for a bit of realism. That's what they've done.

[Zyco187]

Because AR's are self explanatory. HAT, LAT/ Medic require some training and are not straight forward. All you have to do is watch that Movie "commando" when the inexperienced girl picks up the rocket launcher and fires only to be aiming the wrong direction and blows up a car behind her. LOL.

Yes I know what you mean.
But it takes a lot of training to use a specialized weapon properly. And realistically under the stress of battle you are not going to be able to figure out what to do. So just for a bit of realism. That's what they've done.[/QUOTE]

Theyre are not 2yr olds over there.... They have grown up around guns and been around haneous crimes since birth.

[dtacs]

All you have to know is how to pull the trigger.

IRL a SAW takes special training to use. Troops using the weapon have obviously used it and know how to get groupings, just like a sniper knows how to use his rifle accurately.

Now, in PR, when an Insurgent picks up a sniper or SAW, he is just as accurate and well trained as the guy he got it off. Doesn't that seem unrealistic? Regardless of how one may see it, the devs believe it is, hence the reason why those kits can't be picked up.

Theyre are not 2yr olds over there.... They have grown up around guns and been around murderous crimes since birth.

That isn't really true. In Afghanistan it was easy to obtain a weapon sure, but it doesn't mean they know how to operate them properly. In Iraq etc.

it was a functioning society before the Coalition invasion, it wasn't a third world country and there WERE laws in place.

[Anderson29]

i'd like to hand a person a SAW in a combat situation with that person never seeing or operating a SAW before with the feed tray closed and the current drum in the saw empty and watch that person try to reload it.....i think it would be extremely hilarious. keep in mind bullets are flying, heat of the moment type combat situation...and with that situation...would yo really through down ur ak to pick up a weapon ur not familiar with?
and in my opinion, just the glitch that happens when you pick up the enemy kit (your avatar putting on the helmet,rack,shades,etc) is a damn good reason to not allow the picking up of enemy kits. not to mention it would never happen in a AAS situation, logistics could not support the continued use of it like what happens in game. and the thing i hate most is when during an insurgency game a blufor soldier picks up a tiliban or insurgent kit....that alone would never ever happen......that weapon is a sensitive item.

[Murphy]

I could see why BluFor wouldn't want to mess around with a random weapon that may or may not blow up in their hands after the trigger is pulled, but as for OpFor I think we may be selling these guys a little short.

You don't think a man who has fought for his Country/Town/WarLord/WTF ever for the last decade+ would have any training with the BluFor weapon systems? I know it's not realistic or that easy for OpFor to get their hands on an M249, but having the ability to deploy and maintain PKMs and RPKs I don't feel SAW weapons to be as complex as say a HAT/LAW arming sequence.

I realize the reason it was changed is to keep those 10 SAW cache defenses from happening again, but I actually liked the added apprehension of going into a fight not knowing if the weapons firing back are the very ones we held not 20 minutes ago.

[ma21212]

A LMG takes time to get used to, you cant just jump on it and start shooting like Rambo. They train you how to use it. Hell its not enough being able to you enemy weapons in the first place? (just being able to use normal kits is a blessing for you)

Theyre are not 2yr olds over there.... They have grown up around guns and been around haneous crimes since birth.

lool, wow

it was a functioning society before the Coalition invasion, it wasn't a third world country and there WERE laws in place.

+1

[Jigsaw]

You don't think a man who has fought for his Country/Town/WarLord/WTF ever for the last decade+ would have any training with the BluFor weapon systems?

What makes you think that said gentleman has had training on any weapon whatsoever? I'd be prepared to wager that the average Iraqi Insurgent has barely been trained to use an AK let alone a complicated weapon system.

You're assuming that said insurgent will be a man who has fought for the last decade, but what is to say that he wasn't previously a shopkeeper who has taken up arms in his anger against the coalition invasion?

It is that unknown quantity that is the modern insurgent which means you simply cannot account for every possibility, and thus we must make a decision based on the feedback from our Military Advisors which is quite comprehensively that you would never pick up an enemy weapon in the middle of a firefight.

The simple fact that you are still able to use rifleman variant kits is a compromise of epic proportions.

[Bazul14]

I could see why BluFor wouldn't want to mess around with a random weapon that may or may not blow up in their hands after the trigger is pulled, but as for OpFor I think we may be selling these guys a little short.

You don't think a man who has fought for his Country/Town/WarLord/WTF ever for the last decade+ would have any training with the BluFor weapon systems? I know it's not realistic or that easy for OpFor to get their hands on an M249, but having the ability to deploy and maintain PKMs and RPKs I don't feel SAW weapons to be as complex as say a HAT/LAW arming sequence.

I realize the reason it was changed is to keep those 10 SAW cache defenses from happening again, but I actually liked the added apprehension of going into a fight not knowing if the weapons firing back are the very ones we held not 20 minutes ago.

I completely agree. Maybe for the Iraq ins the weapons block should remain, but for the Talis and the Chechens, remove it. I mean a PKM is vaguely enough similar to a SAW to be able to reload em. Probably in the heat of combat it would suck, but it is possible none the less. Something similar could be for the marksmen kit on INS. An M21 is not really that hard to reload, and if you are in a house, not in the heat of combat is even easier. As for the aiming, well, if you are not on cocaine, you can get a relatively decent accuracy if you take your time. I mean currently, with the SKS or AK47, you can get good accuracy if you pace your shots, so why would you not be able to shoot one?!

[ComradeHX]

I just remembered: they can access the internet.

AND they can find the various internet guides (some U.S.Army documents as well) like this: About.com: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-14/index.html

...if they know english, there is no reason for them to not being able to use M249 at least.

[lukeyu2005]

I understand why the enemy HAT, ARTY, ect cannot be picked up, but why can you not pick up and AR ? All you have to know is how to pull the trigger. Evens out the playing field more often and makes you use real tactics.

There is a bit of truth behind this statement.
However an possible compromise is when e.g. a OPFOR picks up an M249 all he can do is use the loaded belt and not reload.

[Celestial1]

But... you can't make the game do that.

You can't make the game portray the difficulty of some random insurgent who's only ever touched his trusty AK, and won't expect the AR to be as heavy as it is/kick as much as it does/etc, which would make him less proficient with the weapon. So the compromise is to just make him not be able to use it.

Most of the rifleman kits are relatively basic; instructions are printed on the sides of some of the LATs, rifles aren't a huge difference if you're swapping from anything else, etc.

[Arnoldio]

Its better this way plus it makes sens.

There.

[Titan]

I just remembered: they can access the internet.

AND they can find the various internet guides (some U.S.Army documents as well) like this: About.com: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-14/index.html

...if they know english, there is no reason for them to not being able to use M249 at least.

Cool .. please go to your lokal Rekruter and tell him that you can skip your initial infantry training and even your individual training because you already read about guns on the internet...

as an insurgent even if you know how to use a gun doenst mean, you are an expert in actuall shooting it. You can go back to a range reallining the sights and expend all the munition you found with the weapon ... after that, grap your old reliable AK and come back to the fight .. only to find out that the insurcengy is already over.. because everybody was busy trying the new guns they found...

[Haji with a Handgun]

Im immensely happy that regular kits can still be picked up, IMO if they wanted to make it more realistic you wouldn't be able to do that at all.

Yes you can no longer defend a cache with a para, but its much better for gameplay.

[Trooper909]

COMPLEX as say a HAT/LAW arming sequence.

LAW and complex does not compute Thats why we can pick up LAT weapons and anything with the word rifleman in it.

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Guys, insurgents don't buy SRAW ammo, AT4 ammo, M249 box mag, that's why its realistic. And its cool that you can attack an insurgents positions without being pinned down by 6 SAW and 2 AT-4..

[lukeyu2005]

So the compromise is to just make him not be able to use it.

This is a great idea however the PR's version of this is ineffective.
20 secs is a long time and it can be easily exploited.
E.g. I am a usmc i see a mec t90 and a mec HAT kit i quickly pick up the HAT kit ignored the warning take a quick shot at the t90 and then switch back to by old kit. It's not realistically limiting them it's just being restrictive.
because in the case of I have a wounded buddy he is all the way over there and is bleeding out pretty badly and can't see I can't pick up a medic kit and heal him, even though the medical equipment from the two armies are identical.

So a simple and possible solution make them not able to shoot. They can carry the kit as long as they want just left click doesn't do anything.
Simple problem solved

[Chuc]

While your solution may sound simple, in reality making the engine do that is another matter entirely.

[[RIP]-Chido312]

I say make it to where you can only use weapons of your own faction. except in INS, and only the armys can use the insurgent weapons. im tired of getting picked off by a haji with an M4 or M16 that he took from someone. in the real world you dont see taliban or any other insurgent group have scopes on their AKs or PKM nor do they use M16s or M4 or L85s or so on and so on.