Is PR straying from its roots?

[dtacs]

Seriously?! You have two different AT kits, a AA kit, stationary TOWs and AAs, mines and sometimes the ability to call for armor or air support. If that is not enough for you, I don't know what is. If anything, it's the opposite. The AT loadout teams has by default both outnumber and overpower the armor on most maps since it's usually just a few APCs on them. Play a few rounds as a crewman on Muttrah, Iron Ridge, Barracuda, etc and see for yourself.

Thermals.

[Sgt.BountyOrig]

I think your problem is that the latest release has had many vehicles released, as a result many people want to 'try out' the new vehicles and so there are many of them added in at any one time, the downside of this is that the maps are flooded with vehicles...

...Probably will be resolved in the next release, when the focus may go to something else, like Air Assets, or even Infantry.

[Rhino]

You guys are talking like you would prefer if there was no vehicles at all ingame... There are games/mods out there that focus on "realism" without vehicles you know if that's what you want?

As for deviation, IMO and the opinion of our MAs, the current deviation is the closest thing we can get to how a solider fires his weapon in r/l without true weapon sway (which btw, isn't possible in BF2). If we had true weapon sway there wouldn't be any problems since you can correct that on the go (unlike deviation) but without it, deviation is the next best thing to simulate realistic weapon handling. I find no problems with hitting my targets myself with the current deviation, just takes a bit of practice.


As for the "mini-mod with old deviation" idea, coding it would be much harder than you would think but your welcome to have a go if you want with crating it yourself, although you would need permission from the lead devs in order to release it thou but I dont see why they wouldn't allow it providing it didn't have any stolen content in it etc.

Thermals.

are not that amazing. They help, but tbh the targets where pretty easy to see before thermals.

I agree with Farks, its much harder to stay alive now in a tank/APC than it was a load of versions back before the introduction of deployable TOWs etc.

[Saarna]

The solution is players using APCs to transport troops, if they dont, there team will suffer.

Being an avid transporter myself, in all fairness there are also quite a few infantry players out there that wouldn't dream of setting a foot in an APC unless absolutely necessary, especially on maps that have transport helicopters.

Take for example the magnificent Wanda Shan: on the standard version it's actually a joy to drive an APC, since there's no other viable way for infantry to move around. On the alternative version, with one chopper, I've seen half the team rather sit in main waiting than hopping into the APC right next to them.

Short of helicopters, many will still run for the jeeps, trucks, boats, whatever they can get their own hands on, even if it lacks the armament, armor and now thermals the APC/IFV would provide.

[Rhino]

Being an avid transporter myself, in all fairness there are also quite a few infantry players out there that wouldn't dream of setting a foot in an APC unless absolutely necessary, especially on maps that have transport helicopters.

Take for example the magnificent Wanda Shan: on the standard version it's actually a joy to drive an APC, since there's no other viable way for infantry to move around. On the alternative version, with one chopper, I've seen half the team rather sit in main waiting than hopping into the APC right next to them.

Short of helicopters, many will still run for the jeeps, trucks, boats, whatever they can get their own hands on, even if it lacks the armament, armor and now thermals the APC/IFV would provide.

Indeed this is also an issue, but again its less apparent on the decent servers out there which have more teamwork.

Its mainly an issue for squads that don't want to work with other squads and want to do everything on there own... And also inpatient squads that want to get to the action as quick as possible.

[Swado95]

I know what you guys are'nt going to like what im about to say but think on it b4 commenting. Maybe that MOST vehicles such as Tanks,Some APCs, Jets and and Attack helicopters should be a 1 time thing. This would make the Drivers a lot more cautious about just driving in the city like a bad man or driving in the open like nobody is ever going to see him. I know some of you are going to be like "WE ARE GOING TO LOSE THEM IN FIRST 5 MIN". Well that might be true IF you let thoughs who have no experience in driving let them drive. But MANY times Ive seen helicopters and tanks live the whole round and get lots of kills at the same time. And if that doesn't work out then make it so they can only spawn once more after dieing or something.

Good: It would give more reliance on inf on the ground collecting information.
:make people think twice about driving if they dont know what their doing.

Bad: Possible some noobs would still try (though i can see the sever regulating that)
: Also some people not even taking them out at all

Also is it just me or is the physics different in single player then muti (Hard to train if its not the same flying)

[Zoddom]

tl :d r, infantry need more ways to deal with assets than is currently offered.

tahts wrong.
IMO the best way is:
Reduce Heavy assets to 1-2 per team (in every map size!!) imagine Wanda Shan with only 2 MBTs per team. You wouldnt have worry about a tank camping in front of your main, because if tehre are only 2 of em the team would need both on the front line to help cap objectives. If there would be only one helicopter you wouldnt have to worry about enemy Anti-Air helis cause it would be a big waste to loose the only chopper of your team.
But imo the respawn timers wouldve to be reduced a bit to avoid players waiting for them and to avoid having too big time frames without any heavy asset (the way to the front usually takes long enough, and the game wont get boring too fast)

IMO assets should be powerful but less spammy.

I would repeat Fuzzhead on this one:

Good: It would give more reliance on inf on the ground collecting information.
:make people think twice about driving if they dont know what their doing.

Bad: Possible some noobs would still try (though i can see the sever regulating that)
: Also some people not even taking them out at all

i dont agree at all. you forgot the worst aspect: IF all enemy assets are destroyed in the first 30 minutes, the other team will totally dominate, the round would be over fast, and it would be VERY boring after having defeated all enemy restistance.
think about reducing maximum number of heavy assets at one time but shorten respawn time a bit.

[JohnnyPissoff]

You assume wrong, tickets and spawning mean you are actually fighting "large" scale fights of 300~vs300~ or whatever the tickets are

I actually took the spawn count amd tickets into consideration gazz, and still stand by my assumption of two light highly trained fast reaction forces. The difference would be that IRL we wouldn't have the bravado as displayed in gaming. Thus less lives (tickets?) would be lost over the time span (mere minutes in game instead of a full day's campaign IRL).

[JohnnyPissoff]

You guys are talking like you would prefer if there was no vehicles at all ingame... There are games/mods out there that focus on "realism" without vehicles you know if that's what you want?

As for deviation, IMO and the opinion of our MAs, the current deviation is the closest thing we can get to how a solider fires his weapon in r/l without true weapon sway (which btw, isn't possible in BF2). If we had true weapon sway there wouldn't be any problems since you can correct that on the go (unlike deviation) but without it, deviation is the next best thing to simulate realistic weapon handling. I find no problems with hitting my targets myself with the current deviation, just takes a bit of practice.


As for the "mini-mod with old deviation" idea, coding it would be much harder than you would think but your welcome to have a go if you want with crating it yourself, although you would need permission from the lead devs in order to release it thou but I dont see why they wouldn't allow it providing it didn't have any stolen content in it etc.

Thanks for the reply Rhino.

I think I'm speaking for just about everyone in the community by saying that the interaction between infantry and vehicles is what brought us to the BF series. And PR particularly, does it better and smoother than any other mod or game that I can think of. We wouldn't be playing it if not for the content. Although I feel that a more infantry friendly game is what some of us lack.

I will reinstall PR and give the old girl another go. I might also say that the camaraderie in a PR squad is primo compared to more action in some other games I've played recently.

As far as the mini-mod...ha ha...I was thinking on the lines that you guys would actually directly support and/or maybe even code it?...opps...lol. Well the main reason being that a few guys from this community have tried to muster players to reinstall and play some older versions with limited success. We are "your" players and fan base, and do indeed follow your direction.

[Rhino]

I will reinstall PR and give the old girl another go. I might also say that the camaraderie in a PR squad is primo compared to more action in some other games I've played recently.

I'm sure you will enjoy it again

As far as the mini-mod...ha ha...I was thinking on the lines that you guys would actually directly support and/or maybe even code it?...opps...lol. Well the main reason being that a few guys from this community have tried to muster players to reinstall and play some older versions with limited success. We are "your" players and fan base, and do indeed follow your direction.

We have enough on our plate as it is without having to worry about another thing to make that we don't even want

[Swado95]

I think what most of us are trying to say (from what i understand) is... Yes we love the content and all the vehicles and how PR has changed. It just seem that the balance of content and teamwork has tipped one way a little. Im not trying to say lets have less content nononono, but balance it back out.

Oh and now that i though about it Zoddom I your idea better because I think your right by saying most people would end up losing it the first 30min and then it would be boring.

[Haji with a Handgun]

Being an avid transporter myself, in all fairness there are also quite a few infantry players out there that wouldn't dream of setting a foot in an APC unless absolutely necessary, especially on maps that have transport helicopters.

Short of helicopters, many will still run for the jeeps, trucks, boats, whatever they can get their own hands on, even if it lacks the armament, armor and now thermals the APC/IFV would provide.

This is completely true, at least for me. I will NEVER set foot in an APC unless my squad is under fire. APCs are like driving target practice, I've gotten killed far more in an APC than when I take Jeeps or Choppers. I would say that infantry has more than enough tools to deal with armor, people just dont utilize them. The number one thing I see people misunderstand about armor is that as an infantryman, YOU CANNOT TAKE ON ARMOR HEAD ON. If you try to engage an APC in a frontal assault, its going to rip you to shreds. Guaranteed.

[Swado95]

Your right APCs are prime targets yet there have been numerous time when my squad lost a HMV transport and was walking in the desert and asked for an APC and it drove right by going after some car or something.

Oh and most of the time when the APC is killed its when a squad leader tells it to drop them off in the middle of a firefight.


P.S how do i create a poll im new to this (as seen by my posts)

[goguapsy]

P.S how do i create a poll im new to this (as seen by my posts)

You must be a R-CON or R-DEV or R-MOD I think.

[Rhino]

You must be a R-CON or R-DEV or R-MOD I think.

ye, if you need a poll, request one and if there is a need it will be given.

We just found people just spamming polls with no purpose so we removed the ability for people to post polls, other than for supporting members.

[Farks]

Thermals.

They've been an improvement, but aren't as magical as some people think. And not every armor vehicle has them.

Like Rhino said, one should really consider why they're playing PR if they don't like the assets in the first place. It's the combined arms aspect and the variety within it that makes PR into what it is. That's not to say that things are perfect though, a lot of stuff can definetly be improved.

[Alex6714]

My opinion is that vehicles amounts are fine most of the time, but adjustments could be made regarding:

5 mins less spawn time in general.

It takes at least 4-5 mins perhaps to reload (less rocket spams everywhere, more careful shots, vehicles not in your face the whole time).

And a few other balance changes.

And really, there are on most maps 3 different layers. If you don?t like vehicles, you all realise there are actually layers with almost none?

[Zoddom]

@alex:
dont you think that lowering the amount of very heavy assets would help too?
i mean, we dont need 6 tanks in kashan, tahts VW mode for.

[Alex6714]

@alex:
dont you think that lowering the amount of very heavy assets would help too?
i mean, we dont need 6 tanks in kashan, tahts VW mode for.

Well I think thats what the different layers are for...

Kashans not great because its mirrored, but I think 6 tanks are fine. But it really depends, I think forcing everything "heavy" to have a fixed same spawn time etc is too limiting. I mean what if you had 3 tanks on 10 mins and 3 tanks on 30 mins? Many variations could be added to gameplay.

[Farks]

@alex:
dont you think that lowering the amount of very heavy assets would help too?
i mean, we dont need 6 tanks in kashan, tahts VW mode for.

There are 4 tanks per team on Kashan. And I think reducing the number of heavy assets on any of those maps would be a contradiction since they were more or less created for larger scale vehicle combat, in contrast to other/smaller maps where they serve a more supportive role. Besides, they tend to operate in those numbers in real life.