Beirut 64: Vehicle Setup

[Element-X_IV]

Alright so, I've played Beirut many times now.

The map has decent gameplay that isn't too boring.
I think the vehicle setup just isn't too good.
Also, I think the layers are setup wrong? Because iirc the 64 layer had heavy assets and not mechanized infantry.
Right now, the 32 version has the Merkava and Havoc while the 64 version has the no-respawn Namier and a single BTR for RU forces along with several cardboard APCs for each side.


For RU, there's 1 delay spawn BTR, 5 BRDMs, and 6 Transport Helicopters that are a huge clusterf*ck when on the deck.

APCs

The BTR is somewhat a decent asset for the Russians when used properly, I've used it really well in a single round with a good gunner without losing it more than twice. But there is just nothing to counter it on the IDF team besides HATs LATs TOWs and Mines.

The Namier should be changed to something else instead or atleast have a respawn. I've seen the Namier get tracked so many times by a single RPG, which imo is bs but of course we all know how the DEVs want it. Gameplay > Realism.

I've once had a good lol while using the Namier, our team had once capped docks just when their BTR spawned, the BTR and Namier starting shooting at each other from the distance, it looked pretty hilarious as neither could damage each other.

So I was thinking. to make it better maybe have non-respawning Merkava for IDF, 2 BMP-3s one of which doesn't respawn. BMP-3s would be decent, it has very good firepower as well as Anti-tank capabilities. So it would be able to counter the Merkava.


Helicopters

I've gotta say though, the way helicopters spawn on the deck of the ship is the biggest clusterf*ck of a chopper spawn I've seen in PR. Just a few hours ago on the ship, We lost 3 choppers instantaneously after one spawned on the chopper beside me, blowing me up, himself and the respawned chopper. One time pre-0.95, I saw about 3 helicopters flipped to it's side on deck. It was hilarious though would be frustrating for the pilot to have to get it all back up.

I've seen the codes as well, I noticed that 2 or 3 heli spawns have another chopper spawn after the current existing one has been moved. Along with about 2 non-respawning ones,

Now that would make for like 5 or 6 total helicopters, if the pilot uses the respawning ones. Imo 6 helicopters is just too many. On most of my games on Beirut, only 2 or 3 choppers are ever used but most of the time get killed on deck.

I think that maybe, there should only be 3 helicopters of which spawns setup to only have 1 existing chopper on a single spawn point. It would give the pilots enough space, along with not too many assets to waste making the pilots be more conservative with their resources and not using the choppers as gunships thinking that if they die they still have an unlimited supply of choppers.


Now, so far that's all I can think of.
Maybe some of you guys who are reading this can provide your own feedback as well ?

[dtacs]

Don't want to hijack your thread but there are serious issues with the 32p as well, mainly the imbalance of the Namer which takes 2 Tandem's to take out and regularly cleans up any Russians who aren't in an urban area with cover.

I agree with your point on the choppers, there are simply more than enough. I've seen ample chopper support working for a winning Russian team but still having about 3 or 4 left on the deck doing nothing at all.

Either way Beirut overall is a great addition to PR and the BMP should balance things up a bit.

[Imchicken1]

The BTR is somewhat a decent asset for the Russians when used properly, I've used it really well in a single round with a good gunner without losing it more than twice. But there is just nothing to counter it on the IDF team besides HATs LATs TOWs and Mines.

The Russians get nothing to counter the Namer except for HATs, LATs, mines and TOWs too. The fact that it respawns though makes it somewhat better than the Namer. Also, it takes one good LAT hit to destroy the BTR. It takes 2 good HAT hits to destroy the Namer (Russian HAT = RPG7 = Tandem = all powerful). IMO the Namer should also be on a delayed spawn as well, but with respawns.


I agree with the over done chopper numbers. A little bit ridiculous

[Element-X_IV]

Well yeah, there is nothing much to counter the namer as well but I mean, I haven't got much experience with the Namer, but from what I've heard from other players, most of the time they get hit once by a LAT or HAT and they're tracked, not really sure though. So it would be good if they would atleast, make it respawn.

But yeah I seriously think a BMP would be good to stir things up a bit. Respawning Namer would be good as well.

I also forgot to mention one thing. Russians have 5 BRDMs. IDF gets 3 M113s with .50 Cals.
I have used the M113s alot, 3 M113s are just no match against 5, probably a reduction of that would be good as well. I mean even a 1 on 1 with the M113 and BRDM, M113 is still the loser.

[Deer]

There is too many choppers when you are winning as russia, but exactly perfect amount when you are losing as russia, thats when those choppers are used and often there is situation when all choppers are down for quite a while. Those are needed to balance the fact that IDF has ground contact to all flags while russia doesnt, also to make it easy enough for pubbies to build firebases as russia.

If you think about it, muttrah has same amount of fast transportation vehicles for US as beirut has for Russia, difference is that some of the helicopters have been replaced by boats, in muttrah boats can also take you to almost any flag... basicly these maps has identical amount of quick-transport vehicles for the side who starts at sea.

I would have liked to make it so that there is just few choppers which respawns fast to keep things balanced, but thats not allowed. Idea was all along that there would be maximum of 2 pilots... which could have been achieved by having only 2-3 choppers with faster respawn rate.


Problem with IDF vehicles is that the faction has only super heavy assets or super light assets, nothing in between... BRDM-2s can own trucks, humwees and m113 APCs easily. BTR can own em even more easily. So i cant put any more powerfull vehicles for russia because i have nothing to give to IDF to balance it... I think super heavy assets such as Merkava and Namer with good scope are making gameplay frustrating for infantry(especially russian infantry who only has close distance bazookas), thats why i wanted to keep those assets away from layer 64, just keeping 1 nonrespawnable namer which sometimes seems to be too difficult to kill.

[PLODDITHANLEY]

Might be useful to replace two helis with boats like on Muttrah, as when IDF has become established on the map a boat would be more useful to get on land.

[Nebsif]

What about a BTR-80A? U can damage the Namer with it, it doesnt have thermals and shouldnt be hard to kill with IDF HAT.

[dtacs]

What about a BTR-80A? U can damage the Namer with it, it doesnt have thermals and shouldnt be hard to kill with IDF HAT.

The Merkava hull on the front and sides would most definitely be resistant to 30mm AP rounds, and its just too much of a gamble expecting it to shoot it in the rear.

However considering on Beirut the Russians are actual Naval Infantry, I haven't been able to find a source that they even use BRDM's or BMP-2's, only that they use MTLB's, BMP-3's and BTR-80's. But of course there are MA's so most likely they've worked with them in one way or another.

Hopefully one day we can do this on the shores of Coastal Settlement

[PlaynCool]

I've just played that map on the 32 layer which i think is better than the 64.Just a liitle remark to add.It would be great if the havoc could rearm from his spawn pad.There is somethimes no free space where to land on the main deck.And i'm just too scared that some trans pilot is going to crash in me when landed the havoc at the deck .

[samogon100500]

Problem with m113 - his MG,to fast overheating of the barrel,if they can be shoot 20-30 seconds without overheat them they should be balanced with BTRs and BRDMs(BTR shoot ~80 rounds without overheat).
And they don't have any protection for gunner,like front shield on Hummer.

Also give here some Hummers with 50cal makes some balance.

[ma21212]

I dont wanna start a whole topic just for this but the 32 version that should get a attack Mi-8 instead of the Havok.

http://www.pintura3d.com/downloads/reality/mi17_14.jpg

[samogon100500]

Looks like IDF would be get vehicles like this one.



Not sure thats they gonna makes in RL,but for beirut it's would be awesome vehicle.
Source says thats it's could heavy IFV with 30mm cannon and Spike ATGMs.

[Acecombatzer0]

Well, I don't think the MI-8 gunship was skinned for MEC...yet. But If the MEC get a Mi-8 gunship, shouldn't the IDF get a Eurocopter Panther gunship?

EDIT: NVM I thought this was about Iron Eagle. Fail.

[Kossolax]

MORPEH use BTR80s and 70s, BMMPs, MTLBs and T-80s. They have not yet recieved T-90s or BMMPs on a large scale but considering PR is set slightly in the future it would not be wrong to include them. The thing about Beirut is that the Russian ship is too far off the coast to deploy a MORPEH company's heavy equipment. The tanks are all landed via LCTs straight onto the beach and hover craft.

Inclusion of a BMMP or two would be viable and feasible and would offset the current Russian IFV disadvantage on Beruit in my opinion. I have seen the Namier sit by the television station and on the dockyard shooting the Russian IFVs as they drive to shore.

Another thing that seems slightly out of place on Beruit is the fact that the Russians intend to conduct an amphibious landing operation against often defended positions, as the IDF tend to rush up there, with little to no fire support. They would at least use artillery fires to prepare their landing positions.

Koss.

[Stoickk]

Meh, personally, I would rather see Beirut as an Insurgency map with IDF versus Hamas.

As for the assets, I think they are fine right now.

[chrisweb89]

The main issue I have with the 64 layer is how easy it is to keep the namer alive. You can rush down to the coast on its spawn shoot some choppers down and then aslong as you stay more than 200m away and have a logi nearby you will never die to the russian HAT. Too many times have I seen a namer get 30 kills and more against a good team because it is such a good stand off weapon with no counter. The minimum change should be the namer on a delayed spawn and all russian apcs spawning right away because of their swim.

My suggestion for the asset layout would be a mix of 32 and 64. Currently the 32 is balanced a little more to russia because its so easy to kill the tank with a havok. To counter the havok and spandrel, and make the IDF less reliant on just one heavy vehicle my suggestion is to have 2 namers and a merkava fighting a spandrel and havok. All of these would be on a delayed spawn so would let both teams get a foothold with AT/AA. The havok would still kill the IDF armour relatively easy(vertical dives with flares beat aa), but because of their numbers and the two namers acting as anti air guns, some of the armour could still surive even against a good havok team.

[Scared_420]

Use the Mi-8 as a kamikazee vehicle and your namer problem is solved.

[Rissien]

Most servers *including ours Scared, dont do it again* dissallow such methods.

[samogon100500]

MORPEH use BTR80s and 70s, BMMPs, MTLBs and T-80s. They have not yet recieved T-90s or BMMPs on a large scale but considering PR is set slightly in the future it would not be wrong to include them. The thing about Beirut is that the Russian ship is too far off the coast to deploy a MORPEH company's heavy equipment. The tanks are all landed via LCTs straight onto the beach and hover craft.

Inclusion of a BMMP or two would be viable and feasible and would offset the current Russian IFV disadvantage on Beruit in my opinion. I have seen the Namier sit by the television station and on the dockyard shooting the Russian IFVs as they drive to shore.

Another thing that seems slightly out of place on Beruit is the fact that the Russians intend to conduct an amphibious landing operation against often defended positions, as the IDF tend to rush up there, with little to no fire support. They would at least use artillery fires to prepare their landing positions.

Koss.

Well,if morpeh yo mean morskaya pekhota,means marines.Well they uses mostly same vehicles as ground forces or a little modified vehicles.BMMP - BMP3F with BMP2 cannon,what make it's same as BMP2.They also uses some modern or older vehicles such as T72 and T90,not only T80.
My opinion - make special closed zone in landing area,also not under flag(Avoid hiding on them and no able to capture for IDF),and make all spawns on them(well,trucks spawn there right?).I also disagree about too much BRDMs here.Better idea - MTLBs.

Well about chopper/tank balance - in good hands both vehicles will make too much for both teams,also if noob get it - it would be wasted.

Also if vehicle wasted - this is all team fault.If IDF never build AA near fobs - Mi28 will rape them,and tank would be useless
Also - if Russians never build ATGMs near FOBs - tank will rape them.