Stronger Bullet Damage For BlackHawk Door Guns

[Shepard]

Absolutely not, the reason the blackhawk HAS weapons is to provide support dropping troops off and picking them up, its not to go flying around the map like i often see as a sort of blackhawk gunship, the BH is then taken out and we are without trans for a while >

[SnipeHunt]

Somehow the minigun should be able to do damage whether it is more accurate, or heavier damage. Most of the time it has no gunner and is treated just like a unarmed huey.

[guru951]

Absolutely not, the reason the blackhawk HAS weapons is to provide support dropping troops off and picking them up, its not to go flying around the map like i often see as a sort of blackhawk gunship, the BH is then taken out and we are without trans for a while >

And how often do you see a BH get nailed by an RPG or a PKM during exfil and insertions? Very often. And because of that it needs power to defend itself. It's up to the server admins to ensure that a BH crew isn't doing CAS missions. To say that it needs weak guns because people will abuse it is kind of lacking in logic.

It is up to the players and admins to ensure that they are not treating it like a CAS helo.
However if I am flying from point A to point B and I see an enemy or 2 during that process, you had better believe that if the shot is good enough and my aim is proper, I expect to kill those guys. Not just kick dust up around their feet. I don't expect the pilot to start doing circles around them til I kill them, but I want my burst to count when I know it was on target.

and once again.....ITS A FREAKING MINI GUN!!!
It is a 7.62 mm, multi-barrel machine gun with a rate of fire of 2,000 to 6,000 rounds per minute.
It is not s Makarov handgun on full auto.

[Dev1200]

The modding team has effectively designed the miniguns so that they are lethal in CQB / Defense situations, but can't snipe enemies from afar. They can rip up a technical if it is nearby, but not accurate enough to kill the gunner without spraying massive amounts of lead in it's general direction.


For these reasons, I want to keep the minigun the way it is. It is not a gunship, if you use it that way you will get killed quite easily, and not get enough kills (which is 12, 2 gunners and a pilot + the BH itself) for it to be combat effective.

[Shepard]

And how often do you see a BH get nailed by an RPG or a PKM during exfil and insertions? Very often. And because of that it needs power to defend itself. It's up to the server admins to ensure that a BH crew isn't doing CAS missions. To say that it needs weak guns because people will abuse it is kind of lacking in logic.

It is up to the players and admins to ensure that they are not treating it like a CAS helo.
However if I am flying from point A to point B and I see an enemy or 2 during that process, you had better believe that if the shot is good enough and my aim is proper, I expect to kill those guys. Not just kick dust up around their feet. I don't expect the pilot to start doing circles around them til I kill them, but I want my burst to count when I know it was on target.

and once again.....ITS A FREAKING MINI GUN!!!
It is a 7.62 mm, multi-barrel machine gun with a rate of fire of 2,000 to 6,000 rounds per minute.
It is not s Makarov handgun on full auto.

I do not think High Explosive Shells are weak.
If a couple of them land near u, u will die instantly or bleed out, the guns are pretty effective.

I hold firm to my belief that good pilots with good intel will never lose a bird.

[USMCMIDN]

making it more powerful would just promote people flying around in it shooting everyone, its a transport helicopter remember that, it isnt supposed to be used for CAS

I think it is good versus infantry but its horrible against techis look at the videos i posted... that will mess up a vehicle.

And if anything it will promote more support for infantry... It is not meant to be solo flown into a cashe and destroy it but many a time the US Army has BH flying around proving cover for infantry IRL. So promoting door gunners would be realistic. Just add damage versus vehicles.

The modding team has effectively designed the miniguns so that they are lethal in CQB / Defense situations, but can't snipe enemies from afar. They can rip up a technical if it is nearby, but not accurate enough to kill the gunner without spraying massive amounts of lead in it's general direction.


For these reasons, I want to keep the minigun the way it is. It is not a gunship, if you use it that way you will get killed quite easily, and not get enough kills (which is 12, 2 gunners and a pilot + the BH itself) for it to be combat effective.

Again I was not moving on a landing pad and it took 5-6 seconds to destroy a techi... Which IRL would amount to something like 400-600 bullets pending on the rate of fire the minigun is set on...

[Omega-[1TF]]

The BH Door guns are great at killing infantry, or shooting the enemies out of their vehicles, but it doesnt actually destroy vehicles (Unless you are willing to stay stationary and shoot at it 6-10 whole seconds)

[myles]

The Minigun is planned to be replaced by the M240.

[Wolfguard]

H[=Rissien;1511586']How wrong you are, they are normal pickups with a .50 mounted on the back. The only thing considered 'bullet proof' would be the engine block being thats the most dense part of the truck.

He means that the pickups in the game are more or less "armored", as you aren't capable of doing the same kind of damage to the occupants in the game, as you would be able to in the real world with the same weapon.

Bullets from the M16 go straight trough ordinary cars in real life as if it was butter, whereas in PR it almost "blocks" it.

It astounds me how many people fail at reading comprehension on various game forums :S

[USMCMIDN]

Bullets from the M16 go straight trough ordinary cars in real life as if it was butter, whereas in PR it almost "blocks" it.

It astounds me how many people fail at reading comprehension on various game forums :S

The 5.56 may go through a car likely not tho pending on the bullet and shot placement... I have seen first hand the 5.56 62 FMJ will get stuck in doors and will bounce off of windshields at times too... It all depends of the variable.

But a heavier 76251 will go through and through... that is what the Minigun fires. It should not take much to destroy a techi at all.

[lukeyu2005]

Maybe give the minigun permanent deviations so it's only accurate up to. Say 200m so people can't snipe with it. And possibly reduce the techie's health. Alone with the humvee to make it fair

[Operator009]

Aren't these guns being replaced fairly soon anyway?

Besides, your crazy if you think the bf2 engine is putting out 600rounds in 3 seconds, lol.


I always just kind of assumed the damage the graphics for that kind of burst fire was there, but there is no way it can register that many impacts, so just takes exponential chunks of health out of a target as long as the graphics (visual effects) are hitting it.

The problem with trying to shoot people from the BH becomes a problem of Rounds Per Minute (RPM) and platform stabilization. IRL that gun, firing from a semi stable platform going 20-30kph would be like a freaking lazer beam, with bullets falling within inches, not feet, of eachother. In PR, each bullet is seperated by a COUPLE feet.

I personally find a speed of 30kph to be optimal in a circling pattern for both miniguns to do their jobs as far as area suppression goes (I don't condone it, put its good to know). At around 20kph, it becomes a lot better at keeping heads downs, becomes viable as a Gary killer, and begins to get kills on random infantry. At 10kph or lower, its a turkey shoot.



I say, if your going to KEEP the miniguns and not replace them, make them fire true-er to their RL counterparts. If, that is, if its possible in the BF2 engine.

[DeltaFart]

I had a cow buzz me and my mortar squad like 3-4 times on hte ger vs rus winter map on TG
Scared the hell out of me, but he was hovering steady as a statue and the gun couldnt hit us for anything, and he wasn't far enogh away to not get fire from our G36s in return, but none of us ever got hit and we were shooting from behind 1 tree at him, and the SL was AFK at the time sitting in the open near FOB, never got hit once, even though the guy threw like 50+ rounds at him
He only left us alone when the Huey acted like a gunship and started buzzing him with a guy and an MP7 started hosing him down from the non gun side ><
Something seemed weird about that situation, the fact tha I never got hit, or my SL

But I have to say, if the action is happeningin one locatoin, say a city, I'd like some BHD style support so long as everyone doesn't need the BH, just minus the D if possible though with the effectiveness of the 50 cals on the techis its impossible to stay in place for any length of time which it should be but I mean you can't even fly near a locatoin of fighting to provide support even moving at top speed without getting knocked out of the air by 50s

[Kaurava]

Besides, your crazy if you think the bf2 engine is putting out 600rounds in 3 seconds, lol.

It can be done, by having the gun shoot multiple rounds at the same time.

To reach the MG42's average RoF of 1200 rpm, the FH2 devs had it fire two rounds at a time at 600 rpm.

[AquaticPenguin]

Aren't these guns being replaced fairly soon anyway?

Besides, your crazy if you think the bf2 engine is putting out 600rounds in 3 seconds, lol.


I always just kind of assumed the damage the graphics for that kind of burst fire was there, but there is no way it can register that many impacts, so just takes exponential chunks of health out of a target as long as the graphics (visual effects) are hitting it.

200 rounds per second is plausible for me. Each round is active for about a second. Collision detection is done both client and server side - client for graphical hits, and server for the actual hits - 1000 ray tests per second isn't a huge amount, especially since the environment is quite sparse and low poly making ray-rejection very quick. There's not a massive amount of bandwidth to the server or clients either since they're both calculating it invidually.

The problem with trying to shoot people from the BH becomes a problem of Rounds Per Minute (RPM) and platform stabilization. IRL that gun, firing from a semi stable platform going 20-30kph would be like a freaking lazer beam, with bullets falling within inches, not feet, of eachother. In PR, each bullet is seperated by a COUPLE feet.

The bullets do land very close to each other, but it's the player who struggles to get the gun to aim exactly where they want it. The miniguns would work much better with a slight spread, then you wouldn't have to be perfectly accurate to kill what you were aiming at, and it's a better solution than increasing splash damage. Either way it doesn't matter too much since the I believe they're being replaced eventually by the more realistic machine guns (m240?).

[lukeyu2005]

Is it possible to give the minigun laser physics and then just add a bullet effect over it. Because I can see the problem of having the correct fire rate and not crashing the server

[Spartan0189]

The Blackhawk's M134s are not for CAS, they're for suppressing when the pilot is landing down and the people are hopping out.

[Operator009]

The Blackhawk's M134s are not for CAS, they're for suppressing when the pilot is landing down and the people are hopping out.

No one is saying the BH should a CAS platform. And as they stand now, they are fairly nerfed compared tot heir RL counterparts.

Read the whole post, you will find the conversation here somwhere stating that it should be an admins job to police how vehicles are used. Should we remove collision so insurgent clown cars cant ram and blow up choppers/hmv's?

[Hotrod525]

No one is saying the BH should a CAS platform. And as they stand now, they are fairly nerfed compared tot heir RL counterparts.

Read the whole post, you will find the conversation here somwhere stating that it should be an admins job to police how vehicles are used. Should we remove collision so insurgent clown cars cant ram and blow up choppers/hmv's?

No but every one seems to forget that it actually work well on INS map. Well i personaly like doing it =)

[Mora]

The blackhawk is using the shotgun code to get a reasonable firing rate. Which basically means that every bullet that is fired actually is a bunch on bullets. But i too think they are a bit too weak.