Grenade trap mechanics. Unrealistic?

[lukeyu2005]

Having studied the grenade trap it seems a little unrealistic for it to explode immediately upon tripping on the wire. I'll explain why.

The grenade trap in PR is just a unpinned grenade with the lever held in place by a can. With a piece of string/rope/cable/ect attached to it.
So when a person trips on the wire. It pulls the grenade out of the can releasing the lever. And start the grenade fuse.

Therefore the grenade should explode only after the 3 sec (or whatever it maybe) fuse burns out. Instead of immediately as it does now.

This change could make the grenade trap a little less deadly against careless insurgents as they have a chance to run away. While for the Blufor it's still deadly as they usually move in a squad and someone will get nailed by it.

However the current grenade trap is possible by shortening the grenade fuse. But I do not know if this is possible nor would I think insurgents would have the skill and time to modify their grenades.

Thus I believe grenade traps should have a delay upon tripping and exploding.

Your thoughts?

[BroCop]

Gameplay reasons. 'Nade traps would be useless as they are usually tripped by someone who is sprinting through and with your suggestion he would just go "wtf" when he hears an explosion 20 feet behind him.

[rampo]

IMO i think anyone able to make an IED like a sapper should be able to remove a fuse from a russian grenade.

[lukeyu2005]

Gameplay reasons. 'Nade traps would be useless as they are usually tripped by someone who is sprinting through and with your suggestion he would just go "wtf" when he hears an explosion 20 feet behind him.

Not if it's in a building and the explosion was bigger. And besides his squad or however's following him will get it.

[goguapsy]

Even if you are sprinting (which isn't the smartest of ideas, sprinting into a possible enemy held compound), you'll bleed from the explosion.

[dtacs]

The grenade in the traps is the Soviet F1, developed during WW2 but still used by some countries. Wikipedia had this to say about it, obviously you can't 100% trust it but its pretty plausible.

However, UZRGM fuze variants are available which give delays between zero (i.e., instantaneous) and 13 seconds, specifically for use in booby-traps.

So instant explosions aren't really that unrealistic.

[BroCop]

Even if you are sprinting (which isn't the smartest of ideas, sprinting into a possible enemy held compound), you'll bleed from the explosion.

in 3 seconds of sprinting you can get quite far from the blast radius.

unless they would be converted into nuclear nades

[BloodBane611]

As dtacs pointed out, there are such thing as zero-delay grenades. I have no idea how common they might be in real life (and it would be rather challenging to come up with any kind of reasonable estimate for a given group), but they are meant for a booby-trap type circumstance.

Also, to some extent grenade traps are a stand-in for a larger variety of boody traps which are available to insurgents

[goguapsy]

in 3 seconds of sprinting you can get quite far from the blast radius.

1st, most people won't sprint into a compound - that's not really smart.
2nd: you would STILL bleed out if you ran in a straight line, I believe.

[USMCMIDN]

I believe in PR they tried to recreate the best the engine can handle the insurgent shortening the fuse?
I know IRL shortening the grenade fuse is possible but IDK how that works...

[VapoMan]

This has been suggested before.

I cant find the actual thread but its listed in "Already Suggested Suggestions (***) and Disallowed Suggestions".

I remember the outcome of the thread was that it couldnt be done because it was hardcoded. If a delay was added the grenade trap would blow up X seconds after it had been placed on the ground, which is not what you want.

[Sex_Cactus]

No no no, you've got it all wrong. You see, it's actually much more complicated than that. The explosion apparatus only looks like a grenade in a can to disguise the insidiously intricate workings within. Here's how it works: Bad guy hits the wire. The wire isn't your average string. It's actually a highly conductive alloy wire. The natural static electricity built up by the bad guy walking around and such discharges onto the wire, which sends the current directly to a cell phone. Here's where it gets interesting! The cell phone receives the electrical current, which is the signal it needs to dial an encrypted text message. Then the other miniature cell phone receives it, deciphers it, and sends its own electrical current to the fuse, which has anticipated all of this five seconds prior with the help of classified quantum technology, and that signal then gives the fuse the final permission to detonate the charge. The second cell phone also sends a "thank you" message in reply to the first, out of courtesy, of course.

And that's how would-be hero medics are foiled!

[Redamare]

Grenade traps should only be issued to Anti personel Kits for unconventional forces . . . and possibly one other kit it doesnt make sense that there are a whole bunch just randomly scatterd around the maps . . . especialy around caches they simply just TK all the time .

[USMCMIDN]

Grenade traps should only be issued to Anti personel Kits for unconventional forces . . . and possibly one other kit it doesnt make sense that there are a whole bunch just randomly scatterd around the maps . . . especialy around caches they simply just TK all the time .

I agree if this was real life... but due to game play nade traps prevent (very well) BLUEFOR entry to certain places.

[Ninja2dan]

The grenade in the traps is the Soviet F1, developed during WW2 but still used by some countries. Wikipedia had this to say about it, obviously you can't 100% trust it but its pretty plausible.

So instant explosions aren't really that unrealistic.

I have never personally seen one of the "alternate" fuze assemblies for these grenades, and have only heard rumors about them. It's possible that a VT-fuze assembly is available, but it's not the same fuze that is employed by common soldiers and they don't appear to be readily available.

Of course, using Wiki has a random chance of being fact. We'd need someone with more in-depth knowledge of Soviet military equipment like Nos to respond.

I believe in PR they tried to recreate the best the engine can handle the insurgent shortening the fuse?
I know IRL shortening the grenade fuse is possible but IDK how that works...

You can't shorten a fuze delay of a real grenade, if that's what you meant. Fuze assemblies are pre-set and not exactly "precise". For example, the M213 fuze used on US M67 grenades has a time delay of anywhere between 3-8 seconds. This is because slight variances in the composition of the delay filler can cause it to burn faster or slower than previous lots. The average delay for that fuze is listed at 4-5 seconds, but soldiers are taught to NEVER rely on it being more than 3. This is also why cooking a grenade can be so risky, you never know when you might pull back a nub.

As for reducing the fuze delay via code alteration in PR, that might be possible. But because I don't know how they are coded or if the code is shared with other grenades, it might or might not work as intended.




The point is that in real life, grenades have a delayed fuze to allow the soldier to throw/roll the grenade from his location to the target. The length of the delay should be sufficient enough to allow him to throw it and take cover, yet short enough that the enemy has little time to react to it. Hand-thrown grenades have been around for centuries, and we've been using the common modern style of fuzes for decades because it's the best anyone has come up with since.


As for the booby-traps being discussed here, I have handled training versions of them myself. They are one of many forms of improvised explosives and demolitions, which means they were not specifically designed for that purpose but have been modified for that use because it's what they had available.

In real life, the design might look simple, and it is. All you really need is a frag grenade, some strong string or wire, a tin can of proper size, and a stake to attach the trip wire. Basic, simple, easy to set up, and "fairly" safe to employ. They function very similar to many other trip-wire type devices.

And in reality, the pressure required to trip the device is not that much. It only requires a couple pounds of pressure to pull the grenade out of the can enough to let the spoon fly loose. And with such minimal pressure, a person not paying attention might not even notice that pressure against their boot. When you consider how much noise a person makes while they trod across the ground, especially when humping all that gear, what chance do you think someone will actually be able to hear a spoon fly loose?

And in real life, when you DO hear that noise, it takes your brain time to react. For your brain to actually recognize the sound, identify it with what it is, and decide how to react...combined with the instant panic that many people feel when they have tripped a device...it's not very likely that you'll be able to haul *** and run safely outside of the kill zone in time.

In PR, players are frequently running about, or at least not moving in such a manner than real soldiers might be moving. So my opinion is that in PR, players automatically have a much better chance at evading blasts from devices simply due to how they move and also due to lag. I would much prefer that all booby-trap devices are non-delayed, but right now you just have to go with what you have available.