Karbala needs some love

[splatters]

Karbala has a lot of open space and it's a 2km map yet it doesn't have a single SPG technical or any arty IED kits, unlike 1km Fallujah for example. Especially with the new code the caches have a tendency to spawn in the outskirts of the city or in the shanty town or mansion etc. that are practically impossible to defend against an onslaught of CAS and armor.

I say give the poor insurgents a few new toys to battle the Blufor (SPG technical, arty-IED)
It's a good map but nowadays the Blufor seems to win every time. All the other insurgency maps are pretty well balanced imho, Karbala is the only one that needs some love

Edit: My subconsciousness is playing tricks with me, basically copied the previous Karbala title.. oh well

[dtacs]

I suggested the removal of the tank which is incredibly hard to kill for a Bradley instead, however the GPO has stayed the same so I don't think we'll see much changes to vehicle layouts in the next coming versions.

Agree with the SPG, as the current ones are pretty useless since they get dominated at range, and its arguably ineffective against the Abrams. ArtyIED kits on the other hand wouldn't be that valuable, as rarely do the heavy vehicles venture into the city. This is encouraged by the open caches as you said, which are often in pretty silly positions (this cache was destroyed by the tank in the first 3 minutes of the game, without a single infantryman even stepping foot into the markets)

Its unfortunately one of the most unrealistic maps at this point in time, as the stupidest tactics employed by the Insurgents are usually the most effective. As an example, our civimob deliberately got killed by armor/infantry in order to give us a fighting chance: by stopping them from getting intel points. But of course the civilian tactics of matyrdom is a whole other ball game.

[Jafar Ironclad]

Karbala also tends to promote REALLY LONG GAMES. The balance is good for the other maps, but not for this one. Both of the Karbala rounds I've last played in went for more than 150 minutes (one ended with a half hour left on the timer). There needs to be something to compensate for the extended periods of inaction a organized blufor team effort can cause... Fewer starting tickets? More respawning assets for insurgents?

I actually think we're looking in the wrong place for a solution. It's not the blufor assets being powerful; its the insurgents assets not being effective at range. I think the solution is actually pretty simple: Replace the Insurgent faction with the Taliban (or militia, if there is desert gear for them). Geographically inappropriate, mechanically on the right track. Better RPG's for range, more ability to deal with blufor air assets, no extreme concern for civilians.

[dtacs]

Karbala is in Iraq, not Eastern Europe or Afghanistan. Insurgents don't deserve to lose more maps, they're an awesome faction.

[Kain888]

Agree with dtacs on all he wrote. Karbala is not so fun as it was before to play. For both factions. For Blufor it is usually easy win and for opfor just dying all the time trying to protect exposed caches. Don't see why Karbala is so heavy on assets with so much open space and not protected cache spawns. With new mechanic it is impossible to win it most of time. All this gives blufor really unfair advantage. Removal of tank would be the best thing for a start.

[sweedensniiperr]

poor insurgents? well that depends...try digging up a cache somewhere in the middle of the city.

[ZephyrDark]

poor insurgents? well that depends...try digging up a cache somewhere in the middle of the city.

Normally the insurgents get ONE lucky inner city cache which is easily defended; however, due to the new cache logic, EVERY other cache is going to spawn on the edge of the city or not even in it at all. Also a lot of the caches outside of the city are either spawned in a destructible building(say over in B3 where the tank just shoots every building in sight), in the open, or in a ridiculously hard place to defend.

My main gripe with Karbala is that it gives the BluFor WAY to much wiggle room these days. Due to the wide open, flat ground, the insurgents have NO proper way to ambush anything unless it enters the city. If you are able to get a proper ambush set up on the outskirts of the city or somewhere out in the dunes on the western edge of the map, or the b3 complex; Chances are a Kiowa (and when the CO UAV is back, that as well) will due a fly-by and spot you since there is NO WHERE to hide out in the desert.

[AnimalMother.]

also i think the US have too many tickets, last night for example a 2 1/2hr game where the US won 89-0, but it took them about 40mins or more to get the first cache due to a good organised defence by the insurgents.

Seeing as the tempo of this map is solely decided by the US they could afford to just sit out in the desert away from harm, pick off a few people here and there and wait for the outer city caches. Without getting into effective insurgent weapon ranges they don't really lose tickets at all. The tank i don't think is a factor as that was lost by the US within the first hour.

lower the tickets, see how it goes adjust from there. As i see it when the US win well (when they deserve it) they do so with 300+ tickets, so reducing tickets will reward a good insurgent defence

[BenHamish]

This is a difficult one.. Even with a fairly cohesive Insurgent team the US can walk all over them due to their far superior mobility and firepower - Excluding the caches that spawn in the city, which seem rare.

Built up defences (SPG's) are very easily overwhelmed by armour/kiowa, and the Kiowa makes sure that any exposed infantry (that might get the armour) are taken out pronto.

Add to that that some of the caches are in exposed places (one comes to mind on a rooftop overlooked by the hills in the East), and it becomes a bit of a farce sometimes. I usually tell my squad to just spam-spawn as civvy's at these caches, but even with them getting killed the game remains very one-sided.

Mobility is fairly limited for Insurgents, as the map is large and the transport usually gets wasted.

That said, however, I do enjoy the map - It's one of those where I expect to lose as Ins and therefore just enjoy being a PIA for Blufor.

Edit: Possible ideas that would vastly improve the chances for Insurgents could be trenches around the 'outpost' areas? That would give cover to Inf. Also, what about 'dugout' caches instead of the normal ones?

The US would still have an advantage.. but it would make the game interesting for both sides..

[splatters]

I realise that Karbala wasn't finished when it was launched and this is just dreaming, but it would be cool if it were to be finished or at least further developed some day.

Adding Arty IED wouldn't have that much affect on the tactics and gameplay but I can't see a reason why it couldn't be there.

SPG technical is incredibly effective on Fallujah for example if you have good operators, on long ranges too. Karbala has a lot of open space and it would be only fair for insurgents to get an SPG or two mounted on their pickups I've never tried it against a tank but I believe it's more effective than the regular RPGs. The only way to take the tank out now is if the tank crew is blind enough to drive into a mine or too unaware to look/listen for bomb cars.

[Stoickk]

The arty ied kit, properly utilized, could be effective on Karbala, particularly for ambushing armor assets crossing the bridges in the east and south of the map, or on the thin strip of land east of the city, or any of a number of other places. It's a very very small step, but one in the right direction.