Remove Bayonets

[Wh33lman]

why?: They are unrealistic
how?: well, lets examine the bayonets use

... Effectively turning the gun into a spear.

spear is designed to be a ranged weapon. keeping the enemy out of range of a sword. in the BF2 engine, it doesnt matter what you see from 3rd person, you have to be standing next to the enemy to stab them, thus negating the realisim of the bayonet.

draw time:

its takes aproximatly 3 seconds to draw the bayonet and attach it to the rifle in PR. the bayonet is suposed to be a quick option for when you run out of ammo for your rifle. therefor attaching your bayonet to your rifle when you run out of ammo is unrealistic. in the 3 seconds it take to attach your bayonet, the man charging at you with his knife is already on top of you.

the SKS bayonet was realistic as it was always deployed and took less then a second to switch between the rifle and it.


now i dont know about you, but if a man is charging me with a knife, im not ging to fumble with a bayonet. im going to draw my own knife and fight back.


and of course we cant forget all the extra work that R-DEV Chuc has to do to animate bayonets for every rifle varient.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonet

[Rhino]

Bayonets do have extra range over knifes and melee attacks ingame, in a hand to hand combat match, a bayonet is way more powerful than a combat knife as you can stand way back and stab the guy while he's trying to get in range of you.

And now that all the bayonets have been animated etc, it seems kinda pointless to throw all that work away.

[Dev1200]

Are bayonets really used more than knives in CQB though?

I'm sure a lot of people did a lot of work on old maps, old weapons that were replaced with better ones, vehicles, etc. How are animations different?

[Herbiie]

Are bayonets really used more than knives in CQB though?

I'm sure a lot of people did a lot of work on old maps, old weapons that were replaced with better ones, vehicles, etc. How are animations different?

I know British troops fix bayonets whenever they might encounter the enemy in CQB - at least the guys I know who have served say so. In fact the Power Rangers (PWRR, Prince of Wales Royal Regiment) effected a bayonet charge in Iraq, to which the insurgents ran away.

Bayonets are fairly realistic & tbh - I don't know about you, but a man's charging me with a knife I'm not going to fumble around with my own knife, I'm either going to shoot him or smack him with the lump of metal in my hands (My rifle).

British troops have used their Bayonets as bayonets more than as knives. And as bottle openers more than that.

[Rhino]

Are bayonets really used more than knives in CQB though?

You would be surprised how much bayonets are still used today in Afghanistan etc. If you dig deep you can find loads of stories on soldiers fixing bayonets and using them in Afghanistan etc. First result on my search: Heat, dust and bayonet charges: life on the Afghan front line - Times Online

Bayonets have a huge advantage over knifes, its like saying a knife is better in a sword fight

I'm sure a lot of people did a lot of work on old maps, old weapons that were replaced with better ones, vehicles, etc. How are animations different?

Maps are removed due to them getting old, stale and taking up valuable space for new maps, old models are replaced with new ones that do the same job. Animations dont really get "old and stale" in the same way maps do since they dont have much to do with gameplay and animations also dont take up much space. As such, there is no reason to remove them, other than to replace them with new bayonet animations if you want to make them?

[TheOldBreed]

no, i have yet to find a suitable scenario to give the almighty command of 'fix bayonets' ingame

[lromero]

no, i have yet to find a suitable scenario to give the almighty command of 'fix bayonets' ingame

Same here, but when i do it will be epic.

[Herbiie]

would be nice if it were possibly to have a system for fixing bayonets, where you press a button to fix bayonets & can still fire, then when you press 1 you just switch to using your bayonet. Would be cool. And probably not possible.

[Rhino]

would be nice if it were possibly to have a system for fixing bayonets, where you press a button to fix bayonets & can still fire, then when you press 1 you just switch to using your bayonet. Would be cool. And probably not possible.

what would be cooler is if you can stab and fire in the same weapon, but not possible

[Dev1200]

loads of stories

As such, there is no reason to remove them, other than to replace them with new bayonet animations if you want to make them?

Totally avoiding the question, do they use bayonets more then knives? If not, they should use knives, for realism sake.

[lukeyu2005]

They are still in use

[Dev1200]

I never said they aren't in use. I'm asking, is it more common to see people using knives, or affixing bayonets in urgent situations, IE no ammo, jammed rifle, etc.

[Canofwhoop]

I never said they aren't in use. I'm asking, is it more common to see people using knives, or affixing bayonets in urgent situations, IE no ammo, jammed rifle, etc.

well, if i had the option to either use my knife that can go an arm's length or place it at the end of my rifle to have a longer effective range.. i would choose the pointed Stick rather a pointed hand.

[Dev1200]

well, if i had the option to either use my knife that can go an arm's length or place it at the end of my rifle to have a longer effective range.. i would choose the pointed Stick rather a pointed hand.

Does it take longer to take out a knife, or take out a knife and affix it onto the barrel of your rifle?

[Herbiie]

Does it take longer to take out a knife, or take out a knife and affix it onto the barrel of your rifle?

there's not much difference tbh, maybe a second or so, if you have time to draw your bayonet/knife then you have time to fix it onto your rifle. 3 Seconds tops to fix bayonet, though usually more like 1 or 2. & most of that is getting it out of your webbing.

Like I said earlier, if you're being rushed & have no time you won't use your bayonet or your knife but your knee (to groin), forehead, fists, or rifle (assuming you can't just shoot them) to bring them down, especially if they've only got a knife.

In that sort of situation smashing them with your rifle would be most effective - I've had it done to me on exercise by a fairly weak little **** and I was seeing stars.

[BenHamish]

I find it very hard to imagine troops with bayonets on their webbing pulling them out IRL and going all CoD on people, like Herbie said.

That myth of a knife silently killing, or killing instantly, is b****cks. It's in games only because you really wouldn't want to simulate what really happens. I'm talking a minute or so..

[TheOldBreed]

what would be cooler is if you can stab and fire in the same weapon, but not possible

not even if say left-click is main weapon, right-click is jab?

[Rhino]

Totally avoiding the question, do they use bayonets more then knives? If not, they should use knives, for realism sake.

Does it take longer to take out a knife, or take out a knife and affix it onto the barrel of your rifle?

I have yet to hear of a situation in modern warfare where soldiers have gotten into a "knife fight" like in the movies, it probably happens but very rare. Bayonets on the other hand are used much more, since for starters, they are fixed BEFORE soldiers get into a situation when they need them, hence the term "fix bayonets" which in the movies you even see them do that before they get into combat. As such, by the time your in combat, whats easier, to stab a guy with a bayonet already on the end of your rifle with long reach, or to fiddle about trying to get your knife out, running up close to the guy while trying to avoid being hit by the butt of his rifle and stab him?

You would have to ask a MA for more information but I highly doubt that knifes are used more than bayonets in front line situations which is portrayed in PR.

not even if say left-click is main weapon, right-click is jab?

Nope, as that's basically having two weapons in one. If it was a Player Controlled Object then we could, but this is a hand-held weapon where right click can only be a function and not a weapon

[Dev1200]

Meh, I'm just thinking what would be most realistic is all. Bayos are cool and all, but sometimes it feels phoney when you're attaching it to your rifle. Just sayin =P

[Rhino]

well ye we can't represent there full advantages realistically in game, which is being able to shoot while also being able to stab at the same time so the only realistic advantage you have ingame is the stabbing range, where in r/l, its mainly used as a back up if you run out of ammo or w/e.