.95 Armor

[Hunt3r]

I believe that it's worth saying that the PR Puma lacks the ability to tackle rough terrain, especially on maps like Lashkar Valley, where taking roads is almost certain death. I believe the Puma has a power to weight ratio equal or greater than the Leopard 2, and that it's armor is capable of shrugging off 30mm APFSDS, no?

Also, I've found that tanks like the Abrams can only take 2 frontal hits of sabot from tank guns before being taken out altogether, while I believe it should be as many as 4-5 sabots to the front.

[J.F.Leusch69]

the PUMA is fixed for the next patch.

[dtacs]

Good to see, I was pissed to no end when my squad literally had to abandon it in the field and walk away after it got stuck in a large crater area on Laskhar.

Armor overall has clearly been made much more lethal but there is still the ability for Infantry to evade them as they did in previous versions. There are only a few select maps that armor is overpowered on, specifically Fools where the overload of British assets makes moving Militia infnatry around impossible as the whole map appears black on thermals.

[Kendt888]

Great work here on 0.95, and nice to see the Ger. faction in the game. Somehow i do fell that its not complete yet. Ive mentioned this under another topic, but is the Ger. truck the same as the brits? and the PUMA dosent seem to be finished to detail for me, cant really tell what it is, but it just look wrong to me, it could be that its just how it is. Its not the biggest help about the puma, but i cant find it, its just a feeling. (maybe the force?)

Other than that there is alot of new amour on fools, its not a problem, but its a challenge to milita, since the brits now have less inf, and that should be used. maybe a few more AT guns? (1 or 2) maybe in the center of the map?

[Hunt3r]

IMO the Puma needs way more armor. It's a 40 tonne vehicle for a reason.

[Hunt3r]

Sorry for bumping, but I'd also like to mention that the Mauser MK30-2 cannon on the Puma has a ROF of 700 RPM, not 200 RPM. Also, it may make sense to have the sounds of a round being loaded into the breech and the breech swinging up to close for tanks.

[Hunt3r]

Another bump:

The Leopard 2 has a very dangerous area that if hit, can send the turret flying into the sky and everyone inside dead:



Penetration of the front-left side of the hull, or by going through the very front of the left side of the hull, will result in a catastrophic explosion.

[dtacs]

That picture isn't really a source, there is obviously ammunition stored there but what is the penetration of T90 rounds like on the front armor?

I'm sure that the armor there is incredibly thick if rounds are going to be put in such a dangerous spot.

[Hunt3r]

The Leopard 2 tends to put it's armor all on the turret face, and doesn't focus as much on the hull. DM53 and M829A3 will definitely go through.

[DankE_SPB]

Dont even get this started. 1st - vs threads are not allowed, 2nd - bf2 doesn't let us make Steel Beasts tank simulator so that whole argument is pointless.

[BenHamish]

Out of interest, how does the armour on tanks 'work' in BF2?

Hitting a modern tank with a HE RPG should have no effect on the front.. I never ever aim for the front but have a hunch that rather than just 'deflecting off' or exploding with no effect (not penetrating) the RPG still does damage, but only a certain amount (for example, maybe 10% rather than the 30% it would do on the back).

I've no doubt that the dev's have done the right thing, but it's purely for my interest that i'm asking.

Basically, the front armour of a modern MBT should be either penetrable, or immune. Is the % damage there to simulate track/sensor damage? Or is it the case that hit in the 'wrong' spot no damage will be done by a LAT to an MBT?

[Lowjoe]

Sorry for bumping, but I'd also like to mention that the Mauser MK30-2 cannon on the Puma has a ROF of 700 RPM, not 200 RPM.

That is true, BUT to achieve higher accuracy it is limited to 200 RPM in the Puma.

edit: @BenHamish: there you go http://www.secretsofbattlefield.com/hitpoints.php

[Hunt3r]

Also of note, the Warrior IFV should have any stabilization taken out, in PR there is stabilization, albeit buggy and doesn't quite work. Also, the elevation/depression speed of the gun should be slow, as IRL this axis of movement is hand-cranked. Finally, the gun needs to have bullet drop, as IRL it doesn't have the luxury of an FCS.

Finally, I'm rather sure that the M2A2 ODS Bradley takes 3 minutes to reload both AP and HE feeds of the autocannon, and the coaxial machinegun should have 800 rounds ready to fire, and take about 1-2 minutes to reload. The TOW, with infantry mounted, should take about 2 minutes to reload both tubes.

[Hunt3r]

Bump again:

The Abrams series of MBTs has a rather constant high-pitched whine inside the turret from the hydraulics. Also once the gun is fired, there is a lot more noise from the breech going down and the gun recoiling back, with the base of the ammo being thrown down, and then the shell being pulled off the ready rack, slammed home, and then the breech going back up. Also, I'm pretty sure it's standard procedure in almost all militaries for the loader to say "Up!" or something similar to indicate that a round is loaded.

[Murphy]

I'm pretty sure it's standard procedure in almost all militaries for the loader to say "Up!" or something similar to indicate that a round is loaded.

In the Abrams I believe there is an "UP" sound cue, but it only really works on one type of ammo (I think its MPAT rounds), or maybe it only works if you do not switch ammo types after firing.

Unfortunately the other factions do not have this luxury, and it makes for some annoying situations.

[Hunt3r]

The sabot round should have "Up!", but after MPAT being loaded "HEAT Up!" should be said. I'm not too well versed in the procedures of other armies, but the US Army definitely would have it. There's also the sound of the lever that allows the gun to be fired being moved to it's upper position.

Tanks have lots of various noises and such going on inside, especially because noise insulation would just be unnecessary weight that could be diverted to something else.

Something that I'd really like to see in armor for PR is the implementation of realistic penetration. If 14.5mm AP will not penetrate a Bradley from 0m/90deg, then in PR it should never damage a Bradley at all.

And in PR:BF2 since it's not possible to simulate losing a track or having all the optics destroyed I'd rather not have an entire vehicle explode as if the ammo were hit if the gunner sight was hit by a burst of 30mm AP-I.

Speaking of which, 30mm AP fired out of Russian vehicles is incredibly weak and within reasonable engagement distances will only penetrate about 30mm RHAe, or less than 25mm APFSDS.

[ralfidude]

WTF is up with ABRAMS vs the T72 on Kashan, where the T72 completely disables the Abrams in ONE shot to the FRONT armor? All the while an ABRAMS shot makes the T72 only smoke?


Is this a bug?

[dtacs]

Whats up with the terrible German armor on SEagle? The Leo's are **** and die incredibly easy. A T-90 TOW to the front puts it on black smoke straight up.

The Puma's aren't any better, camera positioning for the driver is beyond a headache. Needs to be doubled in height so the front of the APC can be seen.

[Nebsif]

^ U can 1 shot a T-90 if u know where to aim at the front armor, which is what I wanted to post about.. some tanks have ridiculous material "builds", like teh Abrams and T-90... how come that shooting a track "wheel" makes same damage as hitting the engine of a tank and etc. While some tanks have insanely unrealistic weakpoints, an APC like LAV-3 has none.

And uhm.. gotta agree about puma, its so annoying to drive, wish we had two cameras on IFVs just like we have on tanks

[Hunt3r]

Oh right, it may be prudent to take out the GPS housing "one-hit" feature of the Abrams, it tends to make life frustrating for US crewmen if the MEC exploit it. It's actually quite plausible for the Abrams to be taken out in close range by a BMP-3 that sprays autocannon onto the GPS housing.

The Leopards really should flat out die from an AT-11b that hits the side and rear areas, but not take a scratch if hit in the front.

The Puma IFV production model has the CIV placed higher up, although the model doesn't need to reflect this visually, the camera should be moved up.