The "I am sad because Wanda Shan was deleted" thread

[LithiumFox]

I have created this thread to discuss how sad I was to find that, instead of Wanda Shan being fixed (i had some pretty fun rounds on it once the server-side lag subsided) it was deleted.


Sadly, there are too many maps, i think, based about roads, urban areas, and deserts.

Wanda Shan had so much to work with it. It had plenty of forest, plenty of wide areas if there were some trans choppers, and all around it could be an epically fun map, if you didn't have server lag.

Sadly, Outlaw must have been clearly mistaken in how people felt about his map.

I enjoyed it. Despite being a forest map, which we also have plenty of, it did feel somewhat refreshing. It had plenty of valleys, it felt pretty great, the foliage was near-amazing, and some specific landmarks were quite amazing. I enjoy the fact that there were few roads, and honestly, I just like how the map was played a few times.

Maybe i only played it about 10 times when .95 was first released.. but honestly i enjoyed the map a lot, i just wish it didn't have the server-lag/crashed the server.

Plus, I honestly wish the silent majority (AKA The people who don't ***** and complain and actually enjoy the game and instead of ruining everything they give the occasional constructive criticism) would speak up more.

Lastly, I feel like WS is a map that has fallen prey to a petty crime of recent times, aka "Complaints". People hate maps, for no reason, other than the fact that they're "bored".

Honestly, I feel the same fate hit Qinling, now it's only there because of achievement. No one EVER plays Qinling, despite how awesome of a map it could be in AASv4. Same with Wanda Shan.

Honestly, I don't know. I think i'm just sad and upset... Wanda shan was that map I played and went "OMG this is amazing....." then defended it as people complained about lag.

=( I just think people need to realize that not everything has to be symmetrical or perfect or blah blah blah. We're not playing CoD here.....

(PS: Im sad that wanda shan is gone, and this was a random rant. Please forgive my inconsistencies in Topic, i just don't know who to blame, so im blaming the people of this community for being biased against stuff for stupid reasons. Honestly, i believe if Kashan was built now and not when it was, it wouldn't have lasted this long... )

[The Iron Dreamer]

To me there are no bad maps in PR. Every map brings it own gameplay... Deleting a map cos its old and outdated is normal but deleting a map cos some ppls have slow PCs and bad servers is just stupid... I myself have a bad PC I run PR at low/medium settings at 10-30 FPS on new maps, but I dont f***** complain.... I have an old PC and a progressing game that dont coup... It's my problem, not the mapper's...

This is just stuipid... And pointless... Instead of going one step forward we're going one step backwards...

WS is a good map... I dont see a point in deleting it...

[Tartantyco]

The only problem with Wanda Shan is the same one that plagues most 4k map, scalability. With objectives that are spaced so wide apart(Sometimes the entire diagonal of the map) the risk/reward ratio is so horribly unbalanced that when these situations occur the entire game just grinds to a halt.

You simply can't have the same amount of objectives(Nowhere close, even) on a 4k map as you do on a 2k map as there is no player scalability. It's a simple principle of game theory, a subject any game designer worth his salt should be well versed in so that he can understand the behavioral effect design changes have on players.

[Noeme]

For me, this is the Best AAS map in the game, simply amazing... I, to be honest, havent had Any troubles in it, but heard that it is unplayable for some... I love wanda sahn

[Adriaan]

The one time I got to play Wanda Shan in 0.95 was epic. The battles felt like something from a huge battle in ArmA with it's epic scale and long range firefights. The map was good enough (not worse than other maps) to be in the game and what issues it had were in my opinion not bad enough to be removed. With the addition of AASv4 this map will hopefully be more fun consistently.

[Shovel]

It was a decent map, i am working on a memorial video as i type this.

[ShockUnitBlack]

It was nice having Russia/China go at it too.

As for the comment regarding four kilometre maps and scalability, I think we need to wait for ASSv4 before coming to any conclusions.

[Elektro]

I thought you hated Wanda Shan Bob

[TheComedian]

I agree with most of what you say about the map. It is good for vehicle combat, ambushes, flanking unseen through thick forest etc. Also one of the few maps where the high hills can be of use to the helicopters as cover.

I only disagree with this sentence:

No one EVER plays Qinling, despite how awesome of a map it could be in AASv4. Same with Wanda Shan.

I don't know what server you play on, but the server I play on (RuleZ) hosts Qinling at least once a week and its very fun and beautiful.

Wanda Shan is avoided by admins because most of the time half of the server will disconnect or CTD, and you never know if it will fill up. I never had lag or CTD on Wanda Shan but Burning Sands is unplayable.

[dunem666]

am i missing something wanda shan being removed?

we still play it on uk warfare, great round every time, why would it be deleted?

[The Iron Dreamer]

am i missing something wanda shan being removed?

we still play it on uk warfare, great round every time, why would it be deleted?

The witch is dead.... - Project Reality Forums

[Airsoft]

I dont have that much time for PR these days, I am dissapoint that whenever I get on this does not get played, nor have I heard of this until today :\

Another map to be added to the map graveyard: EJOD Desert, Bi Ming, Goods Station, Assault on Mestia, Airport, Tad Sae, and the list goes on ...

[Serbiak]

I dont have that much time for PR these days, I am dissapoint that whenever I get on this does not get played, nor have I heard of this until today :\

Well it hasn't been announced until today. I myself don't get to play much lately and don't know the map too well.

[Moonlight]

You gotta be kidding me, delete Kashan instead. o.O

You sir shall die in a fire for such a blasphemous suggestion.

And I was serious saying that. Every single time I play Kashan as inf I spend entire round near bunkers. If anyone manages to push further then the map usually ends since after capping both bunker points village is easily overrun by armor, bombed by jets since usually no one bothers to setup defenses there ergo extremely easy to cap. Not to mention outposts.

Now my point is not that Kashan is bad but the fact it has been played zillion of times and has been around for a lot of time meaning that there rarely will be any surprising new tactics in use. Heck, ppl tend to know where every single rock is... Or a palm in that matter.

New map = more diversity, new strategies, players first have to find out how to play certain map meaning it needs to be played at least dozen of times to have a general idea.

And finally the usual argument why Wanda is bad can be countered with simple vehicle layout change. As far as I know all people are whining about all the time is lack of transport on standard layout.
First of all - it's actually players' issue. On Wanda standard layout tanks are finally tanks and APCs are finally APCs. Lack of other source of trans forces players to use them. It means that on that map, contrary to let's say Muttrah, it's the APC crew that can screw up the round for the whole team.

As I said - players have to find the way to play it. Without inf-armor cohesion or at least a dedicated APC squad that would actually do their job team is going to loose.
That doesn't mean there's something wrong with the map itself, it's just more demanding then the average.

At the top of all of that, there is currently a layout with trans choppers, there's nothing stopping anyone from running this one instead of stnd layout.
And one more thing - I bet there's nothing actually stopping anyone(including Outlawz) from creating a topic discussing the number/type of assets used/ Deletion of a newly introduced 4x4 map with horrendous potential would be a terrible waste. When you manage mine a diamond you don't whine how flawed it is and throw away. You take it, work on it, cut it to finally make it a masterpiece.
[/wall of text]

Please, pardon that quotes, I fell this way it will be easier to notice the posts than in the blog.

There's one more thing I want to add to that wall of text - I don't suffer from any CTD/lag-fps drop on Wanda if that's the issue it's avoided - it's still not a reason to delete it.
Take dragon fly, it wasn't played 'till .95 came out because of the lag/ctd issue. Why wasn't it deleted? Because it wasn't "this map is shit" issue but "this map is unplayable due to CTD/lag" issue. Heck, if that's the case - remove Burning Sands as well - lots of ppl ctd, it has random DoD in the middle of nowhere etc. ;>
No? Why? Because all it needs is some love.

[Peeta]

Wanda was epic.

But, what pisses me off is Outlawz attitude towards the map, it seems like he doesn't even care and we don't even get a proper reason other than he wanted it gone?

SO WHAT? He wants it gone, why does he have ultimate say. Yeah sure, it's his map, but still...

[Farks]

Wanda was epic.

But, what pisses me off is Outlawz attitude towards the map, it seems like he doesn't even care and we don't even get a proper reason other than he wanted it gone?

SO WHAT? He wants it gone, why does he have ultimate say. Yeah sure, it's his map, but still...

No, he wants it gone because all he's gotten in return for his efforts is people bitching about it whenever it's played. As soon as a server loads it immediately turns into a ghost town.

[DeltaFart]

my only issue with the map, is when I was on TG i was runnning between 2 flags and everyone on my sie gave up so its not like I could have seen more of it, its a damn shame

[Kain888]

Ghost town, whaa? Bitching? Some people will leave, rest will stay and enjoy.I have had many awesome round on it on TG and on PRTA. Yes many casual players may not enjoy this map, but on decent servers with decent teamwork this map offers one of the best experiences you can get in PR.

Not to mention coming of AASv4, which will add a lot to this map.

I played it as inf, as APC, as Tank, as spotter for CAS, every round was immersive, fun and really different (not like Kashan or Muttrah, when you can guess fobs locations with 75% chances of success).

To not write same stuff here twice, I'll quote myself from Outlawz's blog:

Outlawz - the loudest are haters. :Z You can't give up, just because someone can't stand teamwork. Please reconsider it. I played it on TG and PRTA and it was excellent experience, actually some of actions were one of the best in my PR gaming. It is demanding map, ok, but leave it for demanding servers then?

And look how ppl reacted/react about deviation, rally points, new blood effect, kit pickups - everything that needs some adjustment. It's always lot of whining and crying, but people adjust and then they see and realize how these new things contribute to the PR idea. I barely experienced so teamwork/transport minded APC drivers like on Wanda, when they actually carry and stick to troops.

There is so many bad maps in PR that needs update or removal- siege at ochamachira std, asad khal, etc. but not this one.

Please reconsider. Me gives you a cookie then!

I agree with the people who write here. This will be huge loss for PR.

[sell]

No, he wants it gone because all he's gotten in return for his efforts is people bitching about it whenever it's played. As soon as a server loads it immediately turns into a ghost town.

I did play some nice rounds on Wanda, the only thing I did not like about this map, is the fact you don't have trans helis, but I think there is a layout with trans helis, but how ever I think if the map would stay in, more players would learn to like it.

[Kain888]

I did play some nice rounds on Wanda, the only thing I did not like about this map, is the fact you don't have trans helis, but I think there is a layout with trans helis, but how ever I think if the map would stay in, more players would learn to like it.

Easy fix of it may be to swap layouts. STD with helis (current alt one), ALT with the apc for transporting troops (like now). For reason strange to me servers rarely run other layouts than STD. Swapping layouts would make Wanda more appealing on less organized servers. ALT would be the same as STD now - more demanding, fun when played with teamwork and really CAS-like, when you have to rely on each other to win (which is amazing in Wadna Shan).

So when Wanda Shan on alt layer would be run on servers that can afford it when it comes to teamwork level on server. On STD people who just want to speed to the fight with trucks/choppers/logis/anything would be satisfied.