128 player tests: Feedback and Observations

[centralhigh76]

Wicca I know that, my original suggestion was is it possible to have more squads other than more squad members. A few pages back they were talking about how they broke up into fire-teams 2 4man 'squads'. I'm just thinking it might be better to have more squads thats all.

[Jaymz]

Very true.

Another point I want to raise, at risk of skirting around one of my own rules: I know and accept that >64 player gameplay as part of the main mod is quite a ways off, but are 8-man squads something that can be safely implemented in the mod sooner? I know personally I had an AMAZING time directing a disciplined 8-man infantry squad; I'd like to hear from more of the other folks that led squads.

If you want to respond to this line of discussion, quote this post.

8 man squads would require other changes such as kit limiting (e.g : 2 x MG's allowed if you have 8 men). Best we hold off until a decision is reached and implement it along with everything else.

[KingKong.CCCP]

Very true.

Another point I want to raise, at risk of skirting around one of my own rules: I know and accept that >64 player gameplay as part of the main mod is quite a ways off, but are 8-man squads something that can be safely implemented in the mod sooner? I know personally I had an AMAZING time directing a disciplined 8-man infantry squad; I'd like to hear from more of the other folks that led squads.

If you want to respond to this line of discussion, quote this post.

Yes, so true.
8 ppl in the squad is far better than 6. You have all the kits you need... thou one more LAT would be nice.

To all the guys saying 4 men squad gives you more control... On a massive server, with 8 or 10 guys in the squad, squad leader is more important then ever, and from my experience, people I consider as "smurfs" saw that pretty fast. Also, playing on the massive server means you will not avoid having new guys or "smurfs" in your squad, but I don't think of that as a bad thing. On a 64 server, new guys had no chance playing with good squad leaders, cos their squads fill like in 3 seconds, top. By the time a new guy figures out it's the survival of the fastest joiners, it's too late.
But than again, having 4 newbies in the squad and 3 good players means that you can run that squad pretty much the same way you do with 4 ppl squad... The other 4 guys are there to see how things should be done, and to prove themselves. At least, with the squad of 8, you can have LMG, medic, HAT/LAT/marksman/grenadier that you can trust, and help 4 more rookies...

I know lots of guys playing this game that hate babysitting... and thats what 128 server came down to... but I strongly believe that is the way to go. New guys should have a proper chance to (if they want to) become a functional part of the team led by some of the best squadleaders/officers there are in the world of online wargames.

[=Romagnolo=]

[Sniperdog]

This picture made my day...

Just sayin.

[centralhigh76]

for 6 players you will also need 2 humvee's,humvee wise that is.

HAHA! I LOVE IT! But its worse when you have no internet strong enough to 'test' on that server :'( and see see everyone talk about how great it is.(Dial up = Gay, T1 that I just ordered Awesome )

[X1 Spriggan]

Sure is fun quoting giant images

Quick Note- I think 8 man fire-teams inst going to be enough because there will always be that squad that will want to lock at 2 guys. ( assuming PR does choose to have 128 players.

My vote is to have Squads up to 12 or even 14. Will be hard to argue this. It is something just as crazy as the increased player count alone.

[Jaymz]

lol, romagnolo

Quick Note- I think 8 man fire-teams inst going to be enough because there will always be that squad that will want to lock at 2 guys. ( assuming PR does choose to have 128 players.

My vote is to have Squads up to 12 or even 14. Will be hard to argue this. It is something just as crazy as the increased player count alone.

We're looking into increasing the amount of squads that can be made as well.

As for the individual squad limit. Well 8 is one of the more common squad/section sizes in reality (consisting of 2 x 4 man fireteams). The only faction in-game I can think of that would go up to the size your suggesting is the USMC (13 men).

[X1 Spriggan]

Bias aren't I

It is hard to tell how mister average player is going to behave on such a high squad player amount. If I were to make my super long winded argument with a million theoretical situations, my main points would be "squad agendas" and "VOIP discipline". I'll keep this super short.


1 vs 1 squads ( the lets kill bad guys agenda)

If squads were set to 8, the only real discernible difference in the fire fights AT THE TIME is that they are longer. However, because there are so many fuller squads now meandering around the map running into each other, firefight intervals will be insanely frequent. Its like 6 man squads but really really frequent.

If squads were set to 12, this could reduce the overall frequency of squad based fire fights AND make the fire fights AT THE TIME seem much longer and feel bigger scaled.

------

People who argue, "I don't want to manage a squad 12 people who won't shut up" need to understand that Mumble is something that NEEDs to be directly implemented into the game. If squads were set to 12 and people understood the -use VOIP only to talk about super important things- and used mumble much more frequently, then of course mumble will more easily assimilated by the PR player base.

[Rudd]

the 8 person stuff is all dependant on if the PR player can adapt using vehicles that only carry 8 people, chopper squadrons rather than 1 chopper, APC convoys, rather than 1 APC...

Can we do it, that is the question, more squads would work around our vehicular limitations imo.

[X1 Spriggan]

chopper squadrons rather than 1 chopper, APC convoys, rather than 1 APC...imo.

Isn't that the most ideal situation?

"Can we do it" Is a matter of how easy or inconvenient it will be to keep squads together. 8 Man fire teams have the luxury of having 8 Manned trucks while all other vehicles have the same problem of vehicle amounts...

Let's say we were trying to do an extract. If we had a squad of 12 with either 2 APC or 2 Helos getting them out, but one of the transports is taken out leaving 6 men behind; best case scenario is the surviving fireteam turn back and not abandon them.

If the squad was set to 8, and lets say the first transport had 6 guys and the other had 2; and then lets say the second transport got taken out leaving two guys behind, the surviving fire team will be saying" fuck it, those guys are dead."

Transport availability by itself is matter of transport spawn time and not overall transport amount.

[centralhigh76]

Well is it possible to do a couple more tests? 1 with more squads (12x6-8 ) and 1 with more squad members (9x10). Then get a community option on what worked best. Because you will always get the 2man locked squads. 'Sniper/Recon' is the most common because no one wants a sniper in there squad. Every time someone gets a Sniper kit (Unless I tell them) I kick them. So IMO more squads (maybe 1 or 2) might be necessary.

If PR were to implement this you could try to limit who gets a 128 Slot server. Give priority to the most commonly played servers like for ex. TG, Hardcore, and some more popular Mumble servers. That way you can see the effect it would have before you take it to the whole mod were every server owner tries to get 128 slots. This way if it turns out that its not the best 140 servers don't have to change everything.

[SGT.MARCO]

128 players was EPIC
I noticed that there is now a large number of Devs and supporting members on this thread so i must ask, WILL YOU IMPLEMENT 128 or so players! or is it to problematic? also will you be able to slip it as a hotfix or will we have to wait till next release if done, i would much rather now have it so that changes can be made in later update instead of another 6-8 months after to fix.

8 man squads, 14 squads limit
That being said, keep it at 8. If a squad leader does not want 8, lock it at 6, but still increase the amount of squads. Its all up to what the sl wants his squad to be like.

Closing, it was really epic having insane amounts of friendlies. So now every role could be filled such as, Mortars, cas,trans,logistics,apc,armor,commander,recon teams, without taking to much away from the battlefield. It really needs to be implemented to show war on grand scale, Im afraid that the only maps that I would enjoy it would be 4km maps, and spacious maps like fools road, beirut, maybe muttrah, etc.

[Jafar Ironclad]

-Snipped-

[ytman]

I really think that the current rule set of the RP and marker system forces squads to stick together relatively close. Seperating your medic from any section of your squad is foolish.

[Riflewizard]

Laggy and a large step down from a 64P server.

the gameplay was nice, i liked how due to lower numbers of kits and vehicles per player there were larger infantry battles, and less specialized kits, with more riflemen which plays better with more realism- the majority of troops are riflemen IRL, and i like the idea of having about half the squad riflemen, we dont need squads where everyone has something special.

Some of the maps felt too small/ not enough features for the increased infantry combat, for example kashan desert bunkers compound.

The lack of tags i don't mind, personally i feel it makes the game more realistic and it discourages enemy kit pickup a lot.

[centralhigh76]

Marco:

I like the 8 man squad with a limit of 14 squads I think that would be the perfect blend. PR should do a test with this. May or may not have 128 slot servers but I think this would be good just to have in PR now. The 14 squads could be put off until/if a 128 slot is available. As for 8 man squads Jafar makes a good point were squad leaders can lock at 6 if that how many they want.

[HMARS]

A Larger squad with the same class/loadout limits would be nice, because it would flesh out the cut-and-dried rifleman portion of the squad significantly; as it is now, between SL, AR, Medic, and possibly LAT/Specialist there isn't really much room for just the plain ol' riflemen.

[zenarion]

Lagged only once. But I play from Europe, so the German server was not that far away.
Lots more infantry, a squad HAD to ride in two small vehicles, which was alright. We were pimpin in a Benz on Silent Eagle.
The only complaint was that everybody forgot what PR is all about, but it was a stress test, not a gameplay test.
Wish I could put some suggestions here, like enforcing Mumble on 128-servers, and MORE CnC mode!

[dtacs]

A Larger squad with the same class/loadout limits would be nice, because it would flesh out the cut-and-dried rifleman portion of the squad significantly; as it is now, between SL, AR, Medic, and possibly LAT/Specialist there isn't really much room for just the plain ol' riflemen.

Too right. The lack of grunts at the moment is frustrating however one medic per squad and 2 AR's is fine.