Qinling feedback on 95 flag layout

[Rudd]

Hey all, I was the one who did Qinling's GPO (thats gameplayobjects, assets/flags etc) for last patch.

I had the good fortune of playing Qinilng 32 on TG the other day, and I self congratulated myself that the flag layout worked very well for such a pretty map that unforunately lacks in specific points of interest.

the feedback from that round was that it was great, though some people would prefer 32 only had CAS choppers instead of a mix of jet and chopper, though Qinling is the only Brit Chi JET map, so I feel jets need to be represented heavily.

The set up of the map is on the premise of area control of 500m flags, of which 1 flag in 2 sets is randomly chosen, NE, NW, SE and SW (along with the main base flags, FOB and farm), rather than 'random hill #3' and this setup seems to be quite sucessful, albeit simplistic.

But what are other people's experiences? Should the flags be bigger? Is the balance of Tank/APC/infantry/Air good, or does it need to be changed? Is the delayed trans chopper for Chi a good idea to produce more asymmetry? (Chi won the round I was in) etc etc

[dtacs]

Well other than the fact that it was over in something like 10 minutes it was alright. Still terrible for infantry (aside from the odd round), the map needs alot more ground transport including light vehicles like Land Rovers and FAV's.

Other than changing the map physically (hills need to be lowered IMO), the vehicle layout is relatively fine.

[Kain888]

Still terrible for infantry (aside from the odd round), the map needs alot more ground transport including light vehicles like Land Rovers and FAV's.

Other than changing the map physically (hills need to be lowered IMO), the vehicle layout is relatively fine.

I play as infantry on Qinling 80% of times and I disagree strongly with almost everything you say. Hills are the best friend of infantry when it comes to avoiding armor and overwatching flag assaults. Also open hilly terrain makes this map quite unique.

About flag layouts. We played recently std layout on PRTA and flags were surprisingly fine. They were situated a little bit south from center of map - in something similar to square separated by lake, I enjoyed this flag layout. Although I recall I played Qinling 4 times since 0.95 and 2 rounds had bad flag locations, favoring PLA strongly. I think that Qinling will be way better with attack routes in AASv4.

I don't think flag need to be bigger, 500m is enough for such a map.

[dtacs]

I play infantry on it 100% of the time and still find boring in comparison to other 4KM maps. The hilly terrain repeats itself making it feel like every location is the same as another random spot on the map. Its unique as there is nothing else like it, but just because its unique doesn't make it up to mod standard.

In the video I linked it was an enjoyable round, but due to the teamwork and communication as opposed to the map. The environment for it just didn't cut the cheese, and another map with better development would have drastically increased the fun factor.

Of course the British and Chinese always need maps, but with the addition of Shijia its time that Qinling finally be put to rest, especially considering the much more developed 4km community maps available.

[Rudd]

come now gents, don't derail a thread, this is about the GPO of this map, now; not the general qualities of the map

[Rhino]

Of course the British and Chinese always need maps, but with the addition of Shijia its time that Qinling finally be put to rest, especially considering the much more developed 4km community maps available.

The thing is its still the only British and Chinese jet map, something that both Shijia and Hainan are not, and afaik HughJass has stopped working on Hainan.

I do agree thou, the map needs to be replaced, but really it needs to be replaced by a map (or multiple maps if one doesn't feature both) featuring both the RAF and PLAAF and right now, I can't think of any maps that are well into there development that do that...

Also that's not to mention that there are not really any other Brit maps with such emphasis on even tanks or other heavy assets, Shijia is mainly light and medium assets and while the Brits do have tanks on the odd map, none of them offer the same conventional conflict as Qinling dose or in the same numbers.

But as Rudd said, back on topic guys.

[Silly_Savage]

Also that's not to mention that there are not really any other Brit maps with such emphasis on even tanks or other heavy assets, Shijia is mainly light and medium assets and while the Brits do have tanks on the odd map, none of them offer the same conventional conflict as Qinling dose or in the same numbers.

But as Rudd said, back on topic guys.

Burning Sands?

If anything, the Marines need a 4km featuring jets, or a 4km in general. But hey, I'm a bit bias myself.

[Rudd]

silly, Jabal 4k is hopefully going to fulfill that role, however I need to coordinate with Joe on that

I've started a project that might replace Qinling, might not we'll see. But BACK ON TOPIC ...silly tester silly

[Rhino]

Burning Sands?

If anything, the Marines need a 4km featuring jets, or a 4km in general. But hey, I'm a bit bias myself.

BS as of yet doesn't feature any jets, nor dose it feature the PLA, let alone the PLAAF.

And yes the USMC do need a jet map, but like Rudd said, Jabal v2 with any luck should fill that gap.

[MikeDude]

Why the hell would we want jets anyways?

[Rhino]

Why the hell would we want jets anyways?

Oh I dunno, maybe for something called close air support?

I agree with your basic point, jets are not grate at the moment and there is a lot of work we need to do on them but that's really no reason to get rid of them.

[Zegel]

Ninja Silly_Savage is ninja.

Anyhow, I think Qinling has been greatly improved by the new flag layout and big honkin' cap radii. In the rounds I've played since .95, it's generally been a tightly-grouped flag layout (see video dtacs linked to) which seems to help alleviate the general "Qinling-ness" of the map (i.e., the walking/riding/treading around for 30-minutes with no contact and no intel on the enemy until you're bombed). Like Kain said, I think this over ANY other 4km map will benefit from AASv4.

I also prefer the mix of both fixed-wing and rotary assets. From what I've seen it tends to make both assets on each side play a little more conservatively throughout the round until air-superiority is established, keeping any one pilot from making everything but the mobile-AA's life a living hell for two hours. This map can especially fall victim to air-asset rapage due to: lack of cover, lack of concealment, and availability of the air assets to attack from any direction, making AA less effective. When the choppers are up, the jet's are searching for the choppers + When the jet's are up, the chopper's are hiding = Life's good for the INF.

But as someone who plays infantry even when the mapper obviously wants me to run a tank squad (what with the 12 spawning MBT's, one logi truck, and one trans-chopper on a delayed spawn), I've got to echo dtacs: There isn't enough free transport for the infantry. This, and Iron Eagle both occasionally suffer from the fatal 'choose a destination, and sit there the whole map-itis'. I think a single extra logi + trans-truck on a short respawn at each main would go a long way to warding off those occasionally awful rounds, because, worst case scenario, the first squaddie to die can grab a truck from main and drive 2km out and move the squad to make them relevant again.

Trans-choppers are always the preferred mode of transportation, but when the enemy has a fighter and an attack chopper up, and you're 6 man defense squad is stuck defending two flags behind the active defend-flag? Fagettaboudit. And I see this pretty often.

Again, look to the linked thread dtacs posted: My team was divded into two groups, my squad stuck defending the very first flag, and the rest of the team stuck faffing about a non-attackable flag, giving enemy armor free-roam about the map.


Sorry if this came off as a rant, just trying to highlight really the only issue I've got with the map anymore. On the whole Rudd, I've found Qinling much more enjoyable, keep it up.

[Tartantyco]

4km maps across the board need more objectives. The objective spread and radius size of 2km maps functions well and must be scaled up to 4km maps, anything else is simply adding unnecessary layers of complexity.

[Imchicken1]

The chines trans chopper needs to not be on a delayed spawn, as the british chinooks spawn at the start. And there also needs to be an extra flag. The assets are perfect though

[chrisweb89]

Add another flag or two in, maybe reduce the cap sizes. On qinling there just isn't enough buffer room with flags. Once you have lost your first contested flag you are already pushed back to your last flag.

[Silly_Savage]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Rhino;1541011']BS as of yet doesn't feature any jets, nor dose it feature the PLA, let alone the PLAAF.

And yes the USMC do need a jet map, but like Rudd said, Jabal v2 with any luck should fill that gap.[/quote]

Rhino;1540988']
Also that's not to mention that there are not really any other Brit maps with such emphasis on even tanks or other heavy assets, Shijia is mainly light and medium assets and while the Brits do have tanks on the odd map, none of them offer the same conventional conflict as Qinling dose or in the same numbers.

[quote="Silly_Savage""]Burning Sands?

If anything, the Marines need a 4km featuring jets, or a 4km in general. But hey, I'm a bit bias myself.[/quote]

That's what I was getting at by mentioning Burning Sands.

On topic, I think AASv4 is going to breathe new life into 4km maps and make them much more enjoyable.

[Murphy]

4km maps across the board need more objectives.

+1

I'd like to fight through more of the maps, to get to experience the entire map instead of a handful of heavily contested areas that are rinse/repeat the next time I play the map. That's what I enjoy about the old cache markers in INS mode, you had to really explore the depths of a map to find the cache.


My issue with the map is having the lopsided layouts, wherein the one side has a very short trip from main to the 2nd (sometimes 3rd) objective while the opposition is unable to deploy as effectively.

I'm figuring AASv4 will help avoid the cluster objectives, but from what I've seen the western, and often southern sides of the lake are the main focal points. When that's the case most of the time the players on the British team are often demoralized, which isn't always fun.